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Reloading for .38- components question


Buckshot Frank

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I just bought a pair of Vaqueros in .38/.357 and am about to order my reloading components. I've never loaded for this caliber, so I wanted to check with the pros before purchasing bulk quanities of bullets and powder.

 

Bullets: Midway currently has Rainier 125 gr RNFP on sale. Rainier are copper plated bullets that are almost as cheap as lead. I've used Rainier bullets in .40 and 9mm for years. Any issues with using these in .38 for cowboy action shooting?

 

Powder: Sounds like Clays is a popular powder for cowboy action shooting. Good choice?

 

Brass: I was going to go with Starline, but they are currently out-of-stock. I think that I might just buy 500 rounds of Remington UMC ammunition to get the brass. Since I have to buy brass anyways, it is almost a break-even to buy loaded ammunition until I get enough brass. How many loadings are you guys getting out of brass?

 

Thanks in advance. I'm an experienced reloader- I just don't want to end up with 5,000 bullets that won't work for some strange reason.

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Lead only, no plated.

 

I like Win 231 for 38s.

 

I started out buying 1000 rounds from Cliffhanger to get me started, and then ordered more brass from Starline.

 

I load and shoot 130gr RNFP and like them. There are a number of places to buy cowboy lead, I use Lone Tree Bullet because he is fairly close and sells at some of the matches I go to. (no shipping charges)

 

Wire guidelines prohibit posting loading recipes here, but I use on about mid to upper end of the range.

 

hope that helps

Grizz

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I guess that it is a good thing that I asked... and I was thinking that this was a stupid question. Rainier are copper plated lead, so I don't know if they would be considered lead or jacketed; they are kind of in between. I'll try to get a hold of someone at the club to see. Thanks A LOT. You might have just saved me some serious coin in buying bullets that I can't use.

 

Edit: I need to learn to type faster. 3 more posts while I was typing a reply. So plated is defenitely out. I'm glad that I hadn't ordered anything yet. I guess that I'll start looking for some lead bullets instead.

 

How many loading are you guys getting out of brass? Since UMC ammo will not be usable either, I'll need to order brass. I need to figure how much I should buy to start with.

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Another NO to the plated bullets. Use lead. A 125 grain truncated cone will feed in almost anything, including in 73 rifles in 38 spl brass. Copper plated bullets are not actually dangerous on steel targets that we shoot, but it is hard for folks to know the difference, they assume you have FMJs in the guns, and they raise their voice and dander about it before they check with you. So, most clubs just rule - all lead, as it's easier to check.

 

38 spl brass should go at least 10 cycles before splitting at the mouth. Don't load it if case has any visible split. Revolvers can handle a split 38 case. Most lever rifles will jam up with the case slipping off the extractor. Real brass will outlast nickel plated brass in 38 spl by about 2x as many loadings. To keep your brass healthy as long as possible - minimal mouth belling and only a moderate crimp.

 

Clays is a fine powder for CAS 38 spl loading. Also works great if you ever load light 12 gauge loads. Beware of trying to shoot light loads of Clays with temps below freezing, however, as the powder burn can be very non-uniform (as in doesn't like to burn completely and starts making squibs) in cold weather. Florida weather, though, you should be fine!

 

Suggest Federal primers, also, in case you have (or install soon) the light hammer springs like a lot of folks use. Feds are easier to ignite.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

PS> Last time I needed .38 spl brass, got it off GunBroker, range brass for 5 cents a piece shipped. Not great, but OK deal.

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Howdy

 

 

Revolver and rifle ammunition may not be jacketed, semi-jacketed, plated, gas checked, or copper washed. It must be all lead. Molydisulfide coated bullets or equivalent are acceptable.

 

That is a quote from the handbook. No plated bullets, it ain't a local club rule, it is a SASS rule. Yes, it is mostly lead, but close ain't good enough. No plated bullets, period.

 

Yes, Clays is a fine powder for 38, that is what I use for Mrs Johnson's ammo. If I wuz you, I would not bother buying brass, I would just reload store bought ammo after I have shot it once. That's what I do, I have never bought a single piece of 38 Sp brass. Buy the ammo and you already have something to shoot. I have a big bucket of 38 Sp brass that I have collected over the years from my shooting of various guns. All brands, I don't get fussy with 38s. Every once in a while, one will split, but at cowboy pressures they should last almost for ever. I avoid nickel plated brass, it seems to split more often than plain brass.

 

I buy my bullets from Moulton Lead. He is local to me, but he ships for a very good price. I use his 125 grain Truncated Cone bullets, they will feed through any rifle that may be fussy with other bullets.

 

Moulton Lead

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Buckshot Frank,

 

Bullets: as others have said lead only

 

Powder: Clays is a good choice I like Promo as it is cheaper. It uses the same data as Red Dot but is denser so check weights before loading.

 

Brass: I've used all different kinds mostly used. I have some that have been reloaded more times than I remember. Bell the mouth just enough to load the bullet, put a good crimp on it, don't over work the brass and it will last a long time.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Smoke

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+1 to everything Garrison Joe said in his post. (I've learned to pay close attention to GJ, always good stuff!) As for the "stupid questions".... as has been said many times, the only stupid questions are those not asked. Ask lots of questions before you spend any money for anything. You will get lots of advise here on the wire. Just remember, not ALL of it will be good. You seem to be fairly knowlegable concerning shooting in general. You'll be able to sort thru the good/not so good stuff and figure it out. Remember...questions asked usually=money saved. :FlagAm:

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I just bought a pair of Vaqueros in .38/.357 and am about to order my reloading components. I've never loaded for this caliber, so I wanted to check with the pros before purchasing bulk quanities of bullets and powder.

 

Bullets: Midway currently has Rainier 125 gr RNFP on sale. Rainier are copper plated bullets that are almost as cheap as lead. I've used Rainier bullets in .40 and 9mm for years. Any issues with using these in .38 for cowboy action shooting?

 

Powder: Sounds like Clays is a popular powder for cowboy action shooting. Good choice?

 

Brass: I was going to go with Starline, but they are currently out-of-stock. I think that I might just buy 500 rounds of Remington UMC ammunition to get the brass. Since I have to buy brass anyways, it is almost a break-even to buy loaded ammunition until I get enough brass. How many loadings are you guys getting out of brass?

 

Thanks in advance. I'm an experienced reloader- I just don't want to end up with 5,000 bullets that won't work for some strange reason.

 

 

 

Most of us in central Florida buy our bullets from Chance Ramsey,he goes to most of the shoots & actually heads up Ruskin.

 

I use his 122gr bullet as do most shooting 38 although some use his 158gr bullet.Thier great folks to deal with ,tell'em I sent ya

 

 

Chance's # 813-986-2268

 

 

 

Oh yea Clay's is great & I buy my brass from folks on wire.

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I buy all my bullets from Missouri Bullet company.Just ordered 1000 125 gr and 1000 158 gr from them and total cost with shipping was $127.For powder I have used Clays but prefer Titegroup.To me it's more cost effective and it isn't case or temperature sensitive.You use less powder by volume with TG than Clays.I just finished reloading 3700 rounds of 38's with TG and only used 1 1/2 lbs of powder.With Clays it would have been closer to 2 1/2 lbs for the minimum recommended loads.If you want to buy brass,check the SASS classifieds or Auction Arms or Gun broker.Typically 38 brass goes for about $70-80 for 1000 pieces shipped.You should be able to get 10-20 reloads out of the brass and around 8-12 out of the nickle plated stuff before you start finding splits in the brass.

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Starline is the best brass by far IMHO.

Bullets have to be LEAD, not washed or whatever.

I would go slow on bullet selection and buy only a few hundred until you get your rifle. Some rifles are hard to please on bullet shape and OAL. It is a lot easier to have both your Vaqueros and rifle shooting same bullets.

I would not be looking at 158 g bullets, but instead look to something like 125 g or lighter. Much less recoil and cheaper.

Lots of good powder to select from. Any fast burning powder will likely work. I like Bullseye, about as cheap as you can get and works well.

What kind of reloading equipment will you be using?

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I shoot a LOT wimpier bullets than some of these guys! I use 125gr. flat points for rifle and 105gr. for pistol. I use RED DOT for everything, including shotgun. I bought two RCBS lockout dies, and two quick release metering screws, so the change from 125 to 105 is easy. Obviously the powder charge is different but we can't post that on here. If interested, I can PM my loads. I look on google for once fired brass, whatever brand is available and cheapest. Sooner or later ya gotta buy brass because cowboy store bought loads are not easy to find. Loading my own gives me access and I can tailor what I want....

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Well, .38 Special is not a caliber I load a lot for, the only SASS gun I have in the caliber is a derringer, but I do load it.

 

For powder, I use Trail Boss, which I use for several other calibers, and have no complaints from it.

 

For bullets, I use a .358"/158 grain lead round nose. Since I don't have a rifle for it with a tubular magazine, I don't worry about flat points, and I have had excellent accuracy with the derringer, and good perfomance from a couple of full size DA revolvers as well.

 

For brass...

 

Well, I am all over the place. Even thought I don't shoot .38's as a main match gun, when I get home and sort through my brass, I always have 1 or 2 .38's that came from someplace I can not identify. As such, I have Remmington, Winchester, Starline, Hornday, Army Surplus, and anything else you'd care to guess at mixed in a couple of BIG coffee cans of the stuff. (Okay, the surplus stuff I got from a friend in the Air Force when they were phasing out the 38's, but you get the point.) Most is brass, but a good percentage is nickled.

 

It's all mixed together at random, and I have noticed no differnce in performance.

 

 

Take it with a grain of salt.

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Outlaw is right use Chance Ramey lead. I also use the 122 grain with a .358 diameter. Starline brass is best but I also load other brass brands. 2.8 of tite-group does the trick.

 

Good luck and come to the "last Stand" and watch Outlaw and Delta Glen. Better yet come shoot the Last Stand 2011

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Guest diablo slim shootist
Outlaw is right use Chance Ramey lead. I also use the 122 grain with a .358 diameter. Starline brass is best but I also load other brass brands. 2.8 of tite-group does the trick.

 

Good luck and come to the "last Stand" and watch Outlaw and Delta Glen. Better yet come shoot the Last Stand 2011

If we are talking wimpy mouse fart bullets i take the cake on that one

115 gr in rifle 90 gr in pistols -over a light charge of tight group.

P.S. Major Mishap you are not suppose to put powder charge weights on the wire

A PM is the way to relay that info. :P

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What kind of reloading equipment will you be using?

 

I use a Lee Classic Turret press, Lee carbide die sets with factory crimp die, and an adjustable charge bar on the powder measure. I have different turrets for each caliber that I reload for, so I only have to set the dies up once. It isn't as fast as a progressive, but I can still load about 100 rounds an hour while being able to keep an eye on each step. It works for me.

 

Thanks for the info on bullet sources folks. I'll check with Chance Ramsey since he is local to me.

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Good advice above.

 

I too use Lee powder measure with the discs. They have worked well, but I did not have good luck with Titegroup. If I used lighter loads, I would get very inconsistent loads and a few squibs. I just couldn't get consistency unless I loaded at the top end - then the recoil was more than I liked. (Titegroup is a powder with a little more bark and bite than a similar load with Clays.)

Red Dot is a good powder, but it is rather chunky and may not work well with your measure either.

 

I normally use Clays or Trail Boss, but Win 231 or HP-38 is very good as well. And Bullseye works pretty well. These powders flow very well with my powder measure. American Select is good, but it is a little more chunky as well. I would say that Clays is one of the most popular though.

 

And if you can get bullets locally as A.O. and others have mentioned, that would probably be the best cost wise. I've ordered from Moulton and was happy, but tis hard to match a good local provider and avoid shipping charges.

 

P.S. I forgot to mention, I tried the adjustable charge bar on the Lee and it really didn't like Titegroup!!! The irrecgular shape and small volume for Titegroup gave many unsafe rounds.

I found the discs to work more reliably on the smaller charges we use for 38's. You could use it for Win 231 and HP -38 since they are spherical powders that run light water through a measure. And probably could use Clays.

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I use 105 grain bullets from Moulton Lead over a charge of Red Dot.

edited to agree with Marauder - If you use the Lee powder discs, Red Dot does not meter well at any charge under 3.5 grains.

I use either Winchester or Remington primers

(I prefer the Remington - they seem to seat easier than the Winchester).

I use whatever various brass that is at the top of my Rubbermaid tote full of brass.

 

I load the exact same charge in both pistol and rifle,but I only use nickel in the pistols and brass in the rifle.

(two reasons - it makes it very visible to me at the loading table that a row of brass AND a row of nickel cartridges are BOTH missing from my ammo box - so I have remembered to load both rifle and pistols {trust me - you will question that from time to time} and I have lots of nickel cases so it would be a waste to not use them, but I don't want to run them thru my rifle).

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Buckshot, Marauder, Creeker ,and others,

 

I too have found the adjustable charge bar at lower charge weights will allow larger flake powders to bridge causing inconsistent charges. A fix that worked for me was to bevel the inside of the opening at the top on both the sliding part and the thin fixed side. The bevel does not need to be very large, just break the edge. Only down side if you go too large is the numbers on the bar may not line up with the chart for charge weights, but we all verify charge weights before loading a batch of ammo, don't we.

 

This minor modification has caused all powders to run more consistently for me.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Smoke

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Howdy,

If you use Titegroup with a lee disk, they make a micro disc for powders like titegroup and I find it works well.

 

Thanks

KK

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Guest diablo slim shootist

i also use the adjustable charge bar on a lee turret with tight group

you have to set it on the lowest setting it will go to use tight group :D

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I just bought a pair of Vaqueros in .38/.357 and am about to order my reloading components. I've never loaded for this caliber, so I wanted to check with the pros before purchasing bulk quanities of bullets and powder.

 

Bullets: Midway currently has Rainier 125 gr RNFP on sale. Rainier are copper plated bullets that are almost as cheap as lead. I've used Rainier bullets in .40 and 9mm for years. Any issues with using these in .38 for cowboy action shooting?

 

Powder: Sounds like Clays is a popular powder for cowboy action shooting. Good choice?

 

Brass: I was going to go with Starline, but they are currently out-of-stock. I think that I might just buy 500 rounds of Remington UMC ammunition to get the brass. Since I have to buy brass anyways, it is almost a break-even to buy loaded ammunition until I get enough brass. How many loadings are you guys getting out of brass?

 

Thanks in advance. I'm an experienced reloader- I just don't want to end up with 5,000 bullets that won't work for some strange reason.

 

SASS rules prohibit using bullets that are jacketed or even have gas checks. The 125 grain bullet weight is a popular weight bullet. Lots of folks do use Clays. I use Titegroup and Bullseye (when I shoot smokeless). Good luck and welcome.

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You might try getting bullets from Bullets By Chance

http://www.bulletsbychance.com/index.htm

 

He comes to several of the shoots in Fla. and his prices are reasonable.

I have used the 122 g truncated cone very successfully in my Marlins.

 

I'm using an old powder - Solo 1250 with good success. I have had less of a bridging problem than with Unique in my Lee power measure

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I use Butler Creek moly 125 gr bullets with Clays powder in both revolvers and rifle.

 

Never heard of Butler Creek bullets. Would you by chance mean Bear Creek? Just checkin.

 

Titus A. (Bear Creek bullet fan) Gnatsass

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Never heard of Butler Creek bullets. Would you by chance mean Bear Creek? Just checkin.

 

Titus A. (Bear Creek bullet fan) Gnatsass

 

Oops. You're right.

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You might try getting bullets from Bullets By Chance

http://www.bulletsbychance.com/index.htm

 

He comes to several of the shoots in Fla. and his prices are reasonable.

I have used the 122 g truncated cone very successfully in my Marlins.

 

I'm using an old powder - Solo 1250 with good success. I have had less of a bridging problem than with Unique in my Lee power measure

 

Thanks for the link. Lots of folks have mentioned Chance, so he must be a good man to do business with. His prices are reasonable and he is local to me, so I'll purchase my bullets from him.

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+1 on Missouri Bullets - good folks to deal with with good prices if you have trouble getting locally. My wife uses 125 gr TC over TrailBoss. She is happy with it.

 

Go ahead and order from Starline. They often will ship quicker than their in stock date. That said, we've used the Remington brass with no problem.

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