Stock length how to get it right

[Pit Bull Tex]

How do you set the length on shotgun or rifle.

[Painted Filly]

Pit Bull,

 

What you do is take the butt of the gun and put in the crook of your arm(where your arm bends) of the arm you shoot with. then reach up and try to put your finger in the trigger guard(your arm will be bent). You want to be able to pull the trigger easily. Better to be a bit short than too long. I will have Kiowa take a couple pictures and post them. My rifle is not quite short enough but my shot gun is so I will take a picture of each.

 

Painted Filly

[Painted Filly]

Pit Bull,

 

Here you go. As you can see my rifle is just a tiny bit long.

 

Painted Filly

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/kpatton/009.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/kpatton/010.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/kpatton/011.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/kpatton/012.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/kpatton/013.jpg

[Grizzly Dave]

Mighty purty wood on that shotgun.

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

Nate Kiowa has listed all the specifics on this topic.. and he keeps it handy for a post such as this.

Hope he reads this and puts it on to answer your questions.. It's a good one..

 

Rance

Thinkin' he explains a lot..

Might try to search for his thread but he's a good cowboy and will probably reply..

[Holden A. Grudge]

Here is what Nate told me when I asked the same or similar question. I saved this in a word doc so the links don't work to the pictures.

 

 

The first thing to look at doing is stock work to fit the shooter. The crook of the elbow to the trigger method is a good method for skeet and other games where the gun is already mounted and you don't have to work the action. Doesn't work well for what we do. What I've found for both but particularly for the ladies is the stock should be just long enough to allow the thumb of the trigger hand to be no closer than an 1" but not more than 3" from the shooters nose. Generally, if the stock is longer the crook of the elbow will be extended beyond 90% and because the ladies and youths generally don't have the upper body strength that men do and the ladies also have those protrusion there on their chest that can get in the way, so the gun will be too front heavy. When you see that new shooter leaning way back struggling to hold the gun up that is usually the reason why, the stock is just too long.

Also the stocks on most of the CAS SXS guns are designed for aerial targets. When you point them toward the ground the positive toe of those stocks tends to dig into your shoulder when you fire. This will eventually cause the shooter to let the stock move down on shoulder which brings the front end up. Shot goes high. Savvy shooters will lean way into the shot but that usually doesn't’t work for the lady shooters. So, now that positive toe is nailing them. For the shotguns besides shortening the stock I like cut them so the pad is about 5 degrees negative. That helps take some of the felt recoil away shooting at our ground targets.

 

Here’s a good example. This young lady was 11 years old when this picture was taken. This first pic is her with one of the youth size Henry 22’s and as you can see she is still struggling to hold it up.

 

LOUISANA STAR'S RIFLE

 

Here she is with a 12ga Baikal SXS that is cut to about 10”LOP with a mercury recoil reducer and good quality recoil pad at about 5 degrees. Her stance isn’t that great but she is definitely in more control of the gun.

 

LOUISANA STAR'S Shotgun

 

 

Here’s another example of the short 5 degree stock. All though it's not a SXS it works even better for this is the clone of the Winchester 1887 leveraction shotgun. The shortened stock helps with the 87 really long lever throw.

 

STOCK VERSION BEFORE THE CUT

 

AFTER THE CUT AND PAD

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Pit Bull,

 

Here you go. As you can see my rifle is just a tiny bit long.

 

Painted Filly

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/kpatton/011.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/kpatton/012.jpg

 

If you look closely at photo 11, you will see the trouble I have had with this method.

 

Notice where the hand is in relation to the lever. I find that i and many others tend to stretch the arm and hand to fit the gun. So even though I though the gun was the proper length, it was a little too long for me because I had stretched a bit.

 

Plus, as one shot-gunner mentioned, you have now fit the gun to your elbow, but you will probably shoot it from your shoulder instead.

So you also have to take into account your shoulder muscles and shape. It can made some difference for muscular men and for the ladies.

 

So you can use that as a start, but then follow Nate's instructions. I find that I normally have to cut about 1/2 inch or a little more after I try the elbow method.

 

When in doubt, take it to a good gunsmith for the first gun, then you will have a better idea for any additional guns.

[JD_Kid]

+1 for whats been said by Nate

 

i looked at cutting down some guns for my wife the forearm lenght idea is a rough idea but also need to take in to account sholder shape neck length shooting eye style etc etc

 

i don't think the master gunmakers makeing the highend shotguns just said put on your shooting jacket and hold the butt in to your elbow

 

big thing is tho for a standard stock there is only a few things that can be done lenght and angle

 

like any think thats mass made it can be used by most but dose not realy fit many ..

 

if say we lined up 1000 cowboy shooters and got a gun fitter to set up all the guns to suit each person custom makeing each stock there would be an area in the middle were a lot of the guns were kinda close to each other but would still be diffrent

 

JD

[Pit Bull Tex]

thanks guys and lady. I was at Nate last monday and forgot to ask him. I will have him do it but I want to do it with out taking him over there. Thanks again.

[Painted Filly]

Maurader,

 

We have not cut my rifle yet. That is the length that the replacement stock came with had already been cut. We cut the shotgun with the same method and came out perfect. We are not cutting the rifle more at this time cause is pretty close to where I want it, is deffinately better than the original stock. So going to practice with it and see it I want to take mopre off as I get used to it shorter.

 

Painted Filly

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Marauder,

 

We have not cut my rifle yet. That is the length that the replacement stock came with had already been cut. We cut the shotgun with the same method and came out perfect. We are not cutting the rifle more at this time cause is pretty close to where I want it, is definitely better than the original stock. So going to practice with it and see it I want to take more off as I get used to it shorter.

 

Painted Filly

 

Always a good plan to take it a step at a time!

[Painted Filly]

That is what I thought. Especially since I have been shooting with it long for a while now. Did not want to throw myself off too much. But shot with it this weekend and did make a difference.

 

Painted Filly

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Once you determine the proper stock length particularly for a Junior shooter, you may find issues with how much you have to cut it off and what remains. On a Big 5 1894 Marlin of mine, the remaining butt was just too short from top to bottom (to properly mount the gun) after cutting off 4 inches of stock. I scarfed in a piece of wood below the remaining stock not including the grip/lever area and was then able to use the original butt plate. Several shooters in our club's new shooter orientation class have used this gun without issues. Within the last week I passed this stock mod past PWB who showed it to the RO committee which approved it an an acceptable mod to adjust the length of pull. Fortunately I have a second unmodified stock for adult usage.

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

Here is my original post with the picture links Holden referred to.

The first thing to look at doing is stock work to fit the shooter. The crook of the elbow to the trigger method is a good method for skeet and other games where the gun is already mounted and you don't have to work the action. Doesn't work well for what we do. What I've found for both but particularly for the ladies is the stock should be just long enough to allow the thumb of the trigger hand to be no closer than an 1" but not more than 3" from the shooters nose. Generally, if the stock is longer the crook of the elbow will be extended beyond 90% and because the ladies and youths generally don't have the upper body strength that men do and the ladies also have those protrusion there on their chest that can get in the way, so the gun will be too front heavy. When you see that new shooter leaning way back struggling to hold the gun up that is usually the reason why, the stock is just too long.

Also the stocks on most of the CAS SXS guns are designed for aerial targets. When you point them toward the ground the positive toe of those stocks tends to dig into your shoulder when you fire. This will eventually cause the shooter to let the stock move down on shoulder which brings the front end up. Shot goes high. Savvy shooters will lean way into the shot but that usually doesn't’t work for the lady shooters. So, now that positive toe is nailing them. For the shotguns besides shortening the stock I like cut them so the pad is about 5 degrees negative. That helps take some of the felt recoil away shooting at our ground targets.

 

Here’s a good example. This young lady was 11 years old when this picture was taken. This first pic is her with one of the youth size Henry 22’s and as you can see she is still struggling to hold it up.

 

LOUISANA STAR'S RIFLE

 

Here she is with a 12ga Baikal SXS that is cut to about 10”LOP with a mercury recoil reducer and good pad at about 5 degrees. Her stance isn’t that great but she is definitely in more control of the gun.

 

LOUISANA STAR'S Shotgun

 

 

Here’s another example of the short 5 degree stock. All though it's not a SXS it works even better for this is the clone of the Winchester 1887 leveraction shotgun. The shortened stock helps with the 87 really long lever throw.

 

STOCK VERSION BEFORE THE CUT

 

AFTER THE CUT AND PAD

[Pit Bull Tex]

Thanks Nate. I knew you would be on sometime.The 92 is working great.Dont think I have had a miss with, but I got a P.You did not take the Ps out of it.

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

Thanks Nate. I knew you would be on sometime.The 92 is working great.Dont think I have had a miss with, but I got a P.You did not take the Ps out of it.

 

they aren't in it. There's P's on it!!!!

[Pit Bull Tex]

I know thats true.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

One last thing - even after you do all the measuring.

It may not be the "Right" length for YOU.

 

My rifle and shotgun are shorter than most because I like the gun pulled in high and tight - I had to cut the stocks a couple times until I reached the length that had the right feel for me.

 

I suggest you ask around at your club to shoulder a number of rifles (find shooters your height/ arm length and some of the ladies/ shorter shooters guns) - If you find a length that "Feels" good, then ask if you can shoot a string thru it (what feels good casually shouldering may still feel wrong on the timer).

 

There are only so many lengths that a stock can be - when you find a good one, lay a tape on it and slice yours to that length.

 

It doesn't matter about anything else, as long as the feel is right to YOU.

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

I suppose you use a bandsaw to cut down the stock. Do you make a jig to hold it perpendicular?

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

I suppose you use a bandsaw to cut down the stock. Do you make a jig to hold it perpendicular?

 

 

Slim, I use a band saw but it will leave it rough. To get it flat and even I use a stand mounted belt sander. Even the new pad or plate gets leveled on the belt sander.

[Uno Mas SASS #80082]

Nate;

 

What recoil pad did you install on the Win 1887 pictured above? I just got a Marlin 1895 Cowboy (Yeehaw!) and I could really use another 1 - 1 1/2" of pull. The '87's pad is just the classic look I want. Assuming it also works well as a recoil absorber - it is a 45-70 after all.

 

I'm guessing a Kick-Eez 500?

 

Thanks again,

 

UM

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

Nate;

 

What recoil pad did you install on the Win 1887 pictured above? I just got a Marlin 1895 Cowboy (Yeehaw!) and I could really use another 1 - 1 1/2" of pull. The '87's pad is just the classic look I want. Assuming it also works well as a recoil absorber - it is a 45-70 after all.

 

I'm guessing a Kick-Eez 500?

 

Thanks again,

 

UM

 

Yes, it was a kick Eez but I don't remember the number. I'm using a different one now. It has a peel off template.

 

Hi Viz XCoil Recoil Pad

[Noz]

Everyone talks about shortening stocks.

I'm a big boy, 260#, 6'3" and I was having a lot of trouble with a "natural mount" on both rifle and shotgun. My guns always came up high and left of aiming point.

On a whim I bought a slip on recoil pad for the shot gun. suddenly all of the KDs were going down. I added an inch of corrigated cardboard under the leather boot on the rifle and the sights are now lined up. By lengthening my stocks about an inch I improved my long gun shooting by about 50%.