OM Vaquero with cylinder drag

[Notso Slim, SASS #67301]

hey all, I bought 4 blackhawk hammers from Ruger for my OM Vaqueros. I replaced the stock hammers in two of my blued .45 birdsheads and they are great. But, when I put one, then the other in my stainless .45 birdshead now the cylinder, which used to be smooth spinning with the gate open, now seems to be draging on the pawl. I think this is the problem because the "Click" is much more pronounced and you can really feel the drop from the lifting spir on the front of the cylinder. What should I be looking for as far as this problem? What could be the difference? Please help.

 

Slim

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

You have discovered why some new parts do not just drop into a gun but sometimes must be fitted. The pawl pivots in a hole in the hammer. It is usually a relatively loose fit. The tolerances on these parts are not particularly tight. I suspect what is happening is the hole in the new hammer may be slightly tighter, or its position may be slightly off from the original hammer, so that the pawl is extending a tiny bit farther.

 

Does the gun lock up correctly when you cock the hammer? If so, I wouldn't worry about the extra sound. When you put a Colt or colt clone at half cock you always hear the hand sing as the cylinder is turned. As long as you don't overdo it, you won't damage anything.

 

I suppose you could look into opening up the pivot hole in the hammer for the pawl ever so slightly, but personally, I don't think I would worry about it. You could also determine which tooth of the pawl is making the noise, and trim it back slightly, but then you might ruin the timing altogether. And there is no guarantee the gun would work correctly if you put the original hammer back in.

 

If it still locks up correctly, I would not worry about it.

[Smithy]

Howdy

 

You have discovered why some new parts do not just drop into a gun but sometimes must be fitted. The pawl pivots in a hole in the hammer. It is usually a relatively loose fit. The tolerances on these parts are not particularly tight. I suspect what is happening is the hole in the new hammer may be slightly tighter, or its position may be slightly off from the original hammer, so that the pawl is extending a tiny bit farther.

 

Does the gun lock up correctly when you cock the hammer? If so, I wouldn't worry about the extra sound. When you put a Colt or colt clone at half cock you always hear the hand sing as the cylinder is turned. As long as you don't overdo it, you won't damage anything.

 

I suppose you could look into opening up the pivot hole in the hammer for the pawl ever so slightly, but personally, I don't think I would worry about it. You could also determine which tooth of the pawl is making the noise, and trim it back slightly, but then you might ruin the timing altogether. And there is no guarantee the gun would work correctly if you put the original hammer back in.

 

If it still locks up correctly, I would not worry about it.

Mighty good advice from Driftwood! If sound is the only offense then don't worry about it! Smithy.

[ol poke SASS 57567]

+1 fer what Driftwood sez - some parts have to be fitted.

 

Could it be that the placement of the pawl on the new hammer causes the hand spring to compress more than before? Ya may just have to trim a coil or two off of the handspring. If'n ya go this route, go slow! Kinda hard to add coils that were cut off!

 

Just a thought...an I'm only a gunsmith on my own guns.

 

 

ol' poke.

[The Tonic Kid, SASS #70340]

Alright Slim...Due that I am your best friend, and I don't want you worrying about that sound, I'm going to let you give the gun to me. Do you feel better now? I'm here for ya.

 

Tonic

[Notso Slim, SASS #67301]

thanks to all, being the analretentave (everything has to be exact) person that I am I have done some serious measuring and here is what I have found.

The measurement from the center of the hammer pivot hole to the pawl hole is different from the old to the new hammer. This changes the angle of the pawl in the frame which in turn allows the pawl to extend out of the rear of the frame about .010 of an inch more than it did before. Now me being me I am going to have to cure this little problem (it is still timed alright and functions fine.) But now I am wondering if I am going to have to "fit" the pawl, should I work on the one I have or go a head and buy, install, and fit a "free spin pawl"? Decisions, decisions. I also wonder this, Is the spring and plunger body that keeps the pawl forward standerd? is there a lighter spring that could be used to releave some of the drag tension on the pawl? If so, would that have an bad effect on the pawl advance or timing? A normal person would learn to live with it the way it is but.....

 

P.S .Hey Tonic, I have a buddy deal for you. if you want this gun you can have it. Just drop off those old nasty googy looking Schofields of yours and it's yours.

 

Slim

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Study this and see if it will help:

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/FreeSpin.html

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

As I suspected, the position of the hole in one hammer is slightly off from the position of the hole in another hammer. I said tolerances on these parts are loose, but .010 sounds like a lot to me.

 

Anyhoo, it is not a great idea to lighten the spring tension on the pawl (or hand) too much. The hand actually exerts a little bit of 'braking action' against the cylinder ratchets. This braking action is regulated by the amount of tension, (or compression as the case may be) that the spring exerts against the hand. If the hand does not press quite hard enough against the ratchets, the cylinder can build up enough momentum as it spins, that if the shooter hesitates while he is cocking the gun, the cylinder can spin slightly past the point where it is supposed to lock up. When the bolt rises, the cylinder has already rotated too far and the gun is not properly in battery. This could be a potentially dangerous situation.

 

One of my Colts had a loose hand spring when I bought it. I could get it to over rotate any time I wanted if I hesitated while pulling the hammer back. I was not comfortable with this, because if the firing pin managed to find the sweet spot on a primer, the bullet might have trouble getting through the forcing cone and the gun might blow up. I replaced the hand spring and peened it in place properly, and I can no longer get that cylinder to over rotate.

 

Be careful if you decide to mess with the tension on the pawl spring.

 

I am anal retentive too, but there are a few things I know to just leave well enough alone.

 

P.S.

 

Frankly, I have never seen what the big deal is about a free spin pawl. Sam Colt determined which way the cylinder should spin. He was a pretty good gun designer. The amount of times I encounter a reload on the revolver, at least around these parts, is so rare that I have never seen the need for a free spin pawl. I just keep that part of the gun exactly the way Colt intended it to work.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

FYI,

The reason I mentioned the Free Spin Pawl article is that when I got my New Vaqueros, just as a test, i took out the spring and plunger that was added to index the cylinder. When I did, one revolver did free spin. They other clicked as I turned the cylinder and it would not free spin.

 

Since I didn't like the little added friction and resistance to the normal spin, I did just enough of the mod to the pawl to do away with the click and make the cylinder run smooth.

 

You can add back the spring and indexer to make the gun run as normal, but know that it is working well without the added friction.

 

WIll it work in your case with the changed dimensions? I don't know.