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Have you ever had targets so big and close ....


Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875

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If you set 5 targets up at 3-4' and engage with 2 sweeps. Then move them back to 5-6 yds and shoot the same two sweeps. You will find the extremely close targets actually slow you down, because your sweep is longer on the close targets.

 

Paniola,

I think you're a nice feller, so I hope you'll take this as it's meant: You have a habit of generalizing and stating assumptions. That is why some take offense at some of your posts.

 

Possum

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Sometime in recent months, there was a photo in the Chronicle of me touching a table at the firing line with one hand and reaching toward a target (that was one of a pair of pistol targets) that I could ALMOST touch. During the match, I missed one of them. The stage called for alternating on the two targets and this gunfighter just got to feeling so good about how fast I was going that…just for a moment, I forgot to aim and follow through with the trigger pull. I have laughed at the irony of that photo many, many times and, as can been seen here, I’m not embarrassed to point it out.

 

I was haulin’ butt when I missed. If it had been a gunfight (isn’t that what we’re doing?), I’d have gotten 23 of them before the last one of got me…which, to me, is much better than being the slow-as-molasses cowboy who catches the first bullet and dies with his guns fully loaded.

 

Here's a quote from Wikipedia's recap of the gunfight at the O.K. Corral: The first two shots were so close together that they were almost indistinguishable. There was then a gap of a few seconds before firing became general from both sides. According to Tombstone old-timers, these shots came from Doc and Morgan. Yet Wyatt would testify that the first two shots came simultaneously as he shot Frank McLaury in the abdomen, and Billy Clanton shot at Wyatt, but missed.

 

Note that according to Wyatt, he and Billy Clanton shot simultaneously. I'd say that Billy was quick, but Wyatt was both quick and accurate. Such is the game we play, the best are quick...and accurate...whether shooting at the corral (pretty close)...or at the card table (in your face).

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Guest Pukin Dog, SASS#55356-Life

I've been to a couple of matches where the pistol target was maybe 6 feet away. Kind of silly, but it was only one target out of many in the match. I have no problem with that. It wasn't really much fun for me, but what the heck, one target is no big deal. Lots of folks thought it was great and talked about how much fun it was. Good for them!! Now if EVERY pistol target in the WHOLE match was that close, I'd never go back. But I've never seen that and I don't think any match director would set up all the targets that way.

 

So next time you see one that close, fire away and enjoy the next one that won't be so close.

 

SASS is kind of self regulating. It all comes back to a middle ground.

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875
If you set 5 targets up at 3-4' and engage with 2 sweeps. Then move them back to 5-6 yds and shoot the same two sweeps. You will find the extremely close targets actually slow you down, because your sweep is longer on the close targets.

 

Paniola,

I think you're a nice feller, so I hope you'll take this as it's meant: You have a habit of generalizing and stating assumptions. That is why some take offense at some of your posts.

 

Possum

 

Possum,

 

Yes, it's probably how I say things that has everyone pi$$ed. I also think that some people feel that I'm criticizing the way SASS matches operate, and that's not the case. I love the way SASS does things. I love the clubs that I shoot with. They are all great folks.

 

And as for a topic like this for example, I did state this on another thread about the targets being so big and close. Then I got an email from a friend who said "Hey I wonder how many other folks have see such a thing? It's almost no challenge at all to the point that you almost feel ashamed to take advantage of the situation."

 

I replied "I shoot anything so it don't matter to me much really. But that's an interesting question, I wonder how many others have seen something simular? Since I don't know, hey maybe I can ask". That's how this topic came about.

 

The problem that I'm having right now is that I have been feeling like I'm talking to my ex-wife on here lately in that it seems that I have to defend myself against every word that I use because it may be taken out of context for some unknown reason.

 

The frustration I'm having is that I feel as though I have to defend myself over things that I really see as pretty unimportant and just parts of a discussion ... and not a matter of life and death like others are taking it. Right or wrong, that's the impression from my end.

 

It's like the discussion about Transfer Fees. I stated what I know as fact that the guy near me charges $35 and after I wrote that then I was attacked for it and called a liar by the same guy that like to rip into everyone over everything. What's up with that?

 

This has all gotten pretty old. I'm very thankful that folks at the range who know me are nothing like what's going on here.

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At CAC I joked about how easy it will be to shoot through the Texas star. We all did. Guess what. I hit that dang thang with a pistol round. Just trying to shoot faster than I am capable. A learning experience for me. Was I the only one who missed? (hit)

Cash

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At CAC I joked about how easy it will be to shoot through the Texas star. We all did. Guess what. I hit that dang thang with a pistol round. Just trying to shoot faster than I am capable. A learning experience for me. Was I the only one who missed? (hit)

Cash

 

 

NOPE.

 

Know of a multi-World Champ that miss/hit :blush: 3 times.

 

Lots of folks missed on that.

It is always those easy ones that get ya.

Yep. I did once also. :lol:

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At CAC I joked about how easy it will be to shoot through the Texas star. We all did. Guess what. I hit that dang thang with a pistol round. Just trying to shoot faster than I am capable. A learning experience for me. Was I the only one who missed? (hit)

Cash

I told Spur Roberts to "MISS THEM ALL" when he was staging his guns. He turned to me all upset, "What the hell kind of A*S comment is that?" Then his brain took over and he proceeded to "MISS THEM ALL". :lol:

 

It's harder to do than you might think! :blush:

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The problem that I'm having right now is that I have been feeling like I'm talking to my ex-wife on here lately in that it seems that I have to defend myself against every word that I use because it may be taken out of context for some unknown reason.

 

Paniolo.........I hope you don't end up having to make alimony payments to Phantom.......... :blush:

 

CS

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:blush::lol::lol: that's gonna leave a mark! :lol::D:D
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First - who the heck cares about why I post what I post...what my motives are??? My opinions are worth what other's opinions are worth here on the Wire.

 

PC, I'm not gunna play this Personality game with you. You cry about this and that...who cares?

 

But, here's a typical PC Wire interface...again, this is just MY opinion:

 

PC: I think Black targets are the best!

 

Other: Black's okay but White are easier to shoot.

 

PC: +1

 

So if anyone wants to know where I come from (No, it ain't from under a rock...), my motives center around making this game solid so that it's around for a long time...to make folks not so damn concerned about what others like/don't like, shoot/don't shoot, wear/don't wear...yadayadayada...play YOUR game within the rules and let others do the same.

 

Let new shooters ask the silly stuff...they're new afterall...but why in the h3ll would a seasoned member bring up the silly crap??? Why would a seasoned member bring up the same old stuff over and over again. Sometimes us seasoned members have a temporary lack of judgement and post a topic that was stoopid...as I did on the TT issue...but to do it over and over and over again makes me wonder what the h3ll is wrong with this person.

 

On the topic of making misses 10 seconds...you clearly implied that you think clubs should try and make members better shooters...for which I felt was damn stoopid...you didn't like my opinion...and boy, you really wanted folks to know that...thou protest to loudly.

 

So which is it? Debate...share ideas? or is it...quit picking on me.

 

:blush:

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Neither is shooting aluminum barrel/ titanium cylinder fast draw guns out of a metal/teflon lined speed rig with a straight up hammer.... just sayin'

 

 

LOL I wuz a waiting on this one! :blush::lol:

 

 

RRR

 

NO

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875
First - who the heck cares about why I post what I post...what my motives are??? My opinions are worth what other's opinions are worth here on the Wire.

 

PC, I'm not gunna play this Personality game with you. You cry about this and that...who cares?

 

But, here's a typical PC Wire interface...again, this is just MY opinion:

 

PC: I think Black targets are the best!

 

Other: Black's okay but White are easier to shoot.

 

PC: +1

 

So if anyone wants to know where I come from (No, it ain't from under a rock...), my motives center around making this game solid so that it's around for a long time...to make folks not so damn concerned about what others like/don't like, shoot/don't shoot, wear/don't wear...yadayadayada...play YOUR game within the rules and let others do the same.

 

Let new shooters ask the silly stuff...they're new afterall...but why in the h3ll would a seasoned member bring up the silly crap??? Why would a seasoned member bring up the same old stuff over and over again. Sometimes us seasoned members have a temporary lack of judgement and post a topic that was stoopid...as I did on the TT issue...but to do it over and over and over again makes me wonder what the h3ll is wrong with this person.

 

On the topic of making misses 10 seconds...you clearly implied that you think clubs should try and make members better shooters...for which I felt was damn stoopid...you didn't like my opinion...and boy, you really wanted folks to know that...thou protest to loudly.

 

So which is it? Debate...share ideas? or is it...quit picking on me.

 

:blush:

 

During a discussion, if someone comes up with a point or two that I can agree with ... I agree with a 1+. If it's completely opposite than my own belief then I don't. I'm flexible enough to try to see other people's points of view.

 

As far as bringing things up again and again, I'm guilty of that. I don't know why I forget that I have, but that could be the way I am these days. Blame my PTSD, I do.

 

The 10 second discussion is a perfect example of not wanting to hijack another post so I started one up on that topic. I never IMPLIED anything. That's in your head. All I asked was what improvement if any would take place? If there would be one at all. I NEVER said make that change.

 

It's like the Top Shooter thread where someone actually wrote me and asked me if I didn't like Top Shooters because of something he "interpreted". I have nothing but high respect and a great deal of admiration for Fast Shooters. But people like you are so busy spinning the truth that you can't even reas a simple statement.

 

What I don't like in a debate is someone like you who makes personal attacks.

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Possum,

 

 

And as for a topic like this for example, I did state this on another thread about the targets being so big and close. Then I got an email from a friend who said "Hey I wonder how many other folks have see such a thing? It's almost no challenge at all to the point that you almost feel ashamed to take advantage of the situation."

 

 

 

 

:blush: Well why dont you tell your friend to give it a try,not trying to to just hit targets which should be easy for him but to do it while being timed & see how your friends time compare to anybodys.

 

 

Its almost no challenge you should feel ashamed ? those might be question for top gun/top catergories who ran away with match

 

 

 

Alot of times you ask questions like a newbie but folks know your not.

 

 

 

I would tell your friend to shoot a 10-10-4 in the berm at whatever distance he wants while being timed & I'd bet most at a match could beat your friends time shooting scenario & targets.

 

 

 

 

AO

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During a discussion, if someone comes up with a point or two that I can agree with ... I agree with a 1+. If it's completely opposite than my own belief then I don't. I'm flexible enough to try to see other people's points of view.

 

As far as bringing things up again and again, I'm guilty of that. I don't know why I forget that I have, but that could be the way I am these days. Blame my PTSD, I do.

 

The 10 second discussion is a perfect example of not wanting to hijack another post so I started one up on that topic. I never IMPLIED anything. That's in your head. All I asked was what improvement if any would take place? If there would be one at all. I NEVER said make that change.

 

It's like the Top Shooter thread where someone actually wrote me and asked me if I didn't like Top Shooters because of something he "interpreted". I have nothing but high respect and a great deal of admiration for Fast Shooters. But people like you are so busy spinning the truth that you can't even reas a simple statement.

 

What I don't like in a debate is someone like you who makes personal attacks.

 

Personal attacks...yeah...right...Mr. Pot...or is it Kettle?

 

You think I'm saying that you were advocating making the change to a 10 sec miss penalty??? I never said that nor implied it. You DID indirectly state that you think clubs can be in the biz of making their members better shooters...geeze...just go read yer post dude.

 

of course then you could always deflect comments about your position(s) and your statements by saying you're being attacked personnally...or blame PTSD...or blame whatever so long as you don't take the blame yourself.

 

OY!!!!

 

:blush:

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+1

 

I like light blue targets

 

:blush:

 

Make that + 2

 

Light blue for pistol targets.

Bright orange for rifle. (Really screws with anyone that is color blind. Especially if there is any nice green foliage near by.)

Oh yea, and medium gray for night BP shoots.

 

Always ready to stir the pot and hijack a thread

Uncle Spiteful.

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875
Personal attacks...yeah...right...Mr. Pot...or is it Kettle?

 

You think I'm saying that you were advocating making the change to a 10 sec miss penalty??? I never said that nor implied it. You DID indirectly state that you think clubs can be in the biz of making their members better shooters...geeze...just go read yer post dude.

 

of course then you could always deflect comments about your position(s) and your statements by saying you're being attacked personnally...or blame PTSD...or blame whatever so long as you don't take the blame yourself.

 

OY!!!!

 

:blush:

 

I asked what improvement would there be IF ANY AT ALL and I gave some options to consider as positives that may come out of that ... IF there were any at all. I did not suggest a change or say that I wanted anyone to consider it. I asked a question as to WHAT IF? WHAT WOULD BE THE OUTCOME?

 

Even Wildshot SASS#51 posted a response saying that it was already tried years ago, and he said it didn't have any positive effect and it was discontinued. This happened long before I came to SASS.

 

Like you said, GO READ THE THREAD DUDE!

 

AND by the way, I accepted the blame for making the mistake of bringing things up over and over again when I said "as far as bringing things up again and again, I'm guilty of that."

 

Next sentence was to say that I DON'T KNOW WHY I DO IT. I said that "I don't know why I forget that I have, but that could be the way I am these days." And yes, I blame myself. I blame myself for being older and more forgetful about already talking to the Wire about something.

 

Now, you happy?

 

:lol:

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I asked what improvement would there be IF ANY AT ALL and I gave some options to consider as positives that may come out of that ... IF there were any at all. I did not suggest a change or say that I wanted anyone to consider it. I asked a question as to WHAT IF? WHAT WOULD BE THE OUTCOME?

 

Even Wildshot SASS#51 posted a response saying that it was already tried years ago, and he said it didn't have any positive effect and it was discontinued. This happened long before I came to SASS.

 

Like you said, GO READ THE THREAD DUDE!

 

AND by the way, I accepted the blame for making the mistake of bringing things up over and over again when I said "as far as bringing things up again and again, I'm guilty of that."

 

Next sentence was to say that I DON'T KNOW WHY I DO IT. I said that "I don't know why I forget that I have, but that could be the way I am these days." And yes, I blame myself. I blame myself for being older and more forgetful about already talking to the Wire about something.

 

Now, you happy?

 

:lol:

 

Sorry that you still don't get the point...probably my lack of ability in communicating.

 

You got into this whole ruffled feathers stance when you failed to understand my post regarding your comments about a club making club members better shooters.

 

You can try and cloud the issue all ya want...my position was just that - a position.

 

I have no right to bitch about someone making a post...free country and all...so I couldn't care less about the 10 sec miss thread you started. I took issue with you philosophy that a club should try and make members better shooters.

 

Now the fact that you seem to contradict your positions rather regualarly...well...don't know what to say about that. Even this thread...I think you made some mention that Everyone had fun...or something like that...then you went on and said that you've never been back to that club...weird...on one hand you're kinda saying that "It's all good"...then on the other hand you're saying "The club sucks".

 

Whatever...

 

:angry:

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With the majority of folks on here saying that BIG CLOSE targets are the way to go.

 

Have any of you ever been to a match that had targets so BIG and CLOSE that you were almost ashamed to say you shot such easy targets?

 

I'm thinking about a match that I shot once that had very BIG targets only about 3 to 4 FEET from the end of my pistol.

 

I don't remember hearing anyone complain about them being so close until they had to take their turn checking guns at the Unloading Table because there was so much splatter coming from the targets.

 

But hey, the times were great! :wub:

 

 

This last Sunday we had a stage at The Cowboys where the pistol targets were about 10 feet away and have to tell y'all I was concerned. As it turned out, no one got shot. ;):angry::lol:

 

Roy

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Unless you are talking about contact distance, safety and splatter are not issues of target distance, they are issues of target, stand and stage design.

 

I have never shot steel targets that were too close to miss. Been ashamed I missed them but never ashamed I hit them. I been ashamed at how slow I hit them but never that I shot at them.

 

There is a pretty clear correlation between speed and target size/distance. If you want a slow game with more misses, make the targets smaller and further out. If you want a fast paced game, bring em in and make them bigger. Interstingly the correlation is much more linear with less talented shooters. Very good shooters tend to have a much smaller impact on their times for the same distance change. This, I believe, accounts for the misconceptions slower folks have over why faster folks shoot so fast. The sad and awful truth is if you move the targets out, the very fast shooters will be much further out in front of slow shooters.

 

Things that push targets out are the advantages of variety and limitations of the stage design, range rules, target and stand quality as well as the surface of the splatter field.

 

Some of the biggest smiles I have seen are from the occasional life size cardboard targets at contact distance.

 

BJT

 

 

With the majority of folks on here saying that BIG CLOSE targets are the way to go.

 

Have any of you ever been to a match that had targets so BIG and CLOSE that you were almost ashamed to say you shot such easy targets?

 

I'm thinking about a match that I shot once that had very BIG targets only about 3 to 4 FEET from the end of my pistol.

 

I don't remember hearing anyone complain about them being so close until they had to take their turn checking guns at the Unloading Table because there was so much splatter coming from the targets.

 

But hey, the times were great! :lol:

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I haven't been in SASS very long so I hesistated to give an opinion on this. But after reading every single post and giving it some long hard thought I've come to a decision. Yes, there was one time where the target was so big and so close I felt guilty.

 

Very first shot I ever took at a deer, I could have reached out and taken him with my knife. But he still tasted mighty fine. :lol:

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875
Sorry that you still don't get the point...probably my lack of ability in communicating.

 

You got into this whole ruffled feathers stance when you failed to understand my post regarding your comments about a club making club members better shooters.

 

You can try and cloud the issue all ya want...my position was just that - a position.

 

I have no right to bitch about someone making a post...free country and all...so I couldn't care less about the 10 sec miss thread you started. I took issue with you philosophy that a club should try and make members better shooters.

 

Now the fact that you seem to contradict your positions rather regualarly...well...don't know what to say about that. Even this thread...I think you made some mention that Everyone had fun...or something like that...then you went on and said that you've never been back to that club...weird...on one hand you're kinda saying that "It's all good"...then on the other hand you're saying "The club sucks".

 

Whatever...

 

:lol:

 

My "philosophy" about that clubs should try to make better shooters? Show me where I said that?

 

I asked if there would be ANYTHING POSITIVE, ANY IMPROVEMENT, SOMEHOW.

 

You have a way of twisting things to fit what you think even if you're wrong? I NEVER said that I have a philosophy that a club should try and make members better shooters, just like I NEVER that that "Club Sucks" ... I said those 3 stages sucked.

 

But those stages influenced me about going back.

 

The club has great people and I had a lot of fun IN GENERAL. All I said was is that I did not like those 3 stages with the real close targets that were only 3 to 4 FEET away.

 

This ain't rocket science. Why can't you understnad what I'm saying?

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My "philosophy" about that clubs should try to make better shooters? Show me where I said that?

 

I asked if there would be ANYTHING POSITIVE, ANY IMPROVEMENT, SOMEHOW.

 

You have a way of twisting things to fit what you think even if you're wrong? I NEVER said that I have a philosophy that a club should try and make members better shooters, just like I NEVER that that "Club Sucks" ... I said those 3 stages sucked.

 

But those stages influenced me about going back.

 

The club has great people and I had a lot of fun IN GENERAL. All I said was is that I did not like those 3 stages with the real close targets that were only 3 to 4 FEET away.

 

This ain't rocket science. Why can't you understnad what I'm saying?

Many of us just love close targets, could you tell us the club's name that has targets at 3 to 4 feet so we can enjoy shooting them?

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My "philosophy" about that clubs should try to make better shooters? Show me where I said that?

 

<snip>

 

Just to help a bit and chime in because you and Phantom seem to have a communication issue...

 

You did infer that to be the case (unintentionally or otherwise), whether you said it outright or not. I came to the same conclusion that Phantom did. Which is why I asked for clarification.

 

It was in the "What if misses were 10 seconds" thread.

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Hi Ya Philly Slim.........This is the guy that dont know ya hahaha

 

As for to close and to big...........I can miss not matter what!!!!!!

 

I almost did. :P Like I said, it was the first shot I ever took at a deer. Buck fever was so bad I could barely hold him in my sights. But he's looking over me now from the wall of my reloading room. :rolleyes:

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Just to help a bit and chime in because you and Phantom seem to have a communication issue...

 

You did infer that to be the case (unintentionally or otherwise), whether you said it outright or not. I came to the same conclusion that Phantom did. Which is why I asked for clarification.

 

:P That's what I got out of it also.

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875
Just to help a bit and chime in because you and Phantom seem to have a communication issue...

 

You did infer that to be the case (unintentionally or otherwise), whether you said it outright or not. I came to the same conclusion that Phantom did. Which is why I asked for clarification.

 

It was in the "What if misses were 10 seconds" thread.

 

Doc,

 

I have apologized repeatedly to everyone because they thought that I was INFERRING that, but I wasn't.

 

Re-reading that thread, I can see where I should have taken more time and worded things differently. I think I was ASSUMING way too much about what BJT was saying in his original post which finally prompted me to start the topic. And I also think that I ASSUMED too much about you and some of the others on the Wire.

 

I never knew until this thread that people have had a hard time understanding what I write. In fact up until this thread I never knew how little respect people have for me.

 

But again, going back and re-reading that thread, I really should have stopped trying to explain what I was trying to say because it seems that the more I tried to explain ... the worse it got.

 

The first rule of digging yourself into a hole is to stop digging right! I should've stopped digging.

 

Oh well, it ain't the first time that I've screwed up trying to get a point across. I'm just disappointed that it had to happen here among some folks who I used to like and respect.

 

Take Care Doc!

 

:P

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