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Rifle Defense and Hunting Ammo


G. P. Cobb

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Would you go: Ammo Direct or Cheaper than Dirt?

223, 308, 300wm, 30-30; 30-06, etc.

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Reposted to dis-include handgun remarks.

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Never, never, Never, reload ammo for self defense. Should you have need to use the ammo, your defense will be much simpler with factory ammo rather than ammo you loaded with the express purpose of killing and maiming someone. You may even check into using the same ammunition that your local police use just to bolster your defense.

 

Hunting ammo that you reload is usually more suited to the purpose intended than factory ammo. Besides, the taking of game with ammo that you loaded yourself is very satisfying.

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Ace has it right. Using handloads for self defense opens yourself up to claims that you deliberately loaded "man killer" ammo, even if it's loaded below what's commercially available. You never know which way the wind is going to blow once you're in court, so you're better off using something that's labeled "self defense" on the box.

 

The Hornady FTX Critical Defense ammo would be a better choice, even if it is about $1 per round.

 

On a related note, if you have a carry permit, it's a good idea to always carry no matter where you're going. If the unthinkable happens and you get asked why you were carrying that day, the best answer is "I have my permit - I always carry". Otherwise it can get twisted into an argument that since you didn't always carry obviously that day you left the house armed and looking for trouble.

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Never, never, Never, reload ammo for self defense. Should you have need to use the ammo, your defense will be much simpler with factory ammo rather than ammo you loaded with the express purpose of killing and maiming someone. You may even check into using the same ammunition that your local police use just to bolster your defense.

 

Hunting ammo that you reload is usually more suited to the purpose intended than factory ammo. Besides, the taking of game with ammo that you loaded yourself is very satisfying.

 

Please cite any cases of self-defense where use of reload ammo was a factor with the shooter being charged in the case.

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I doubt that it would go criminal, except if the shoot was either totally wrong or a questionable or accidental shooting.

 

Now the civil trial is a different matter. To save 20 yankee greenbacks, would you risk epending 100K on a defense attorney or judgement?

 

I, for one, do not care to be the test dummy in this..

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Mas Ayoob supposedly discusses these two cases re this topic in his teachings:

 

http://forums.gunsandammo.com/forum/person...d-taboo-follows

 

New Hampshire vs. Kennedy: NH officer pulls over a drunk, who scuffles for his handgun. Officer has his Colt loaded with handloads that duplicate the CCI Flying Ashtray round, which was of limited availability. The fact that he had loaded up "more lethal" ammunition became an issure.

 

New Jersey vs. Bias: Man's wife commits suicide with his .357 that he'd loades with light loads (she was recoil conscious.) At issue: the light loads left no to limited gunshot residue on her, suggesting the gun was farther away than it was and that the husband had shot her. They could not test his remaining ammo (it's evidence) and they could not trust his loading log (he would have manufactured the evidence.) Defense had to perform ballistics tests based on the log, and use experts to explain what happened.

 

Have not done a Google search and it would be difficult to find cases where the laywers had used the reloads in their examinations of witnesses as most case summaries only discuss the major holdings. Have not done a search for main holdings re use of reloaded ammo in self-defense but it seems Mas Ayoob is a proponent of this theme.

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So ya'lls decision is NOT to use AmmoDirect.com for any personal use ammo? I'm not really thinking of the home invasion here, more when the drug war arrives in Kansas and deer/coyote hunting.

 

Note: I do not reload rifle ammo. My question is whether to use professional reloads or new. Check OP for sizes in question.

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I guess is was not looking for legal dialogue, I was looking at cost and quality of the ammo................

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I reload ALL my hunting ammo...reason being that I can tailor a load to each rifle or shotgun I own. Rifles are a little more particular on what they shoot best. 2 rifles of the exact brand, model and caliber may not shoot the same ammo exactly the same. Some rifle just shoot certain loads better than others. I tailor a specific load to a specific rifle, depending on the groups it shoots and what the chronograph shows. I want my hunting rifles to shoot as well as my benchrest and varmint guns. Doesn't always happen, but I can always shoot tighter groups than the factory stuff. :rolleyes:

 

Shotguns are a little different. I don't load any of my waterfowl loads because they need to be steel shot. I also pattern everything (including all my reloads - SASS too). Some screwin chokes do better with certain loads than others.

 

I've been reloading for over 50 years and rarely shoot factory loads. The only exception is my concealed carry and steel shot waterfowl loads. My carry gun is a 9mm and I don't even own a set of dies to reload it.

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Cost of self defense rounds.

 

It's not like cas where you shoot 100's of rounds at a shoot every weekend. You will probably buy one box of rounds for self defense. Shoot a wheel/clip or two to get the feel. The rest will live in the gun and the balance in the box in the cupboard.

 

Even if it was $2.00 a round for self defense rounds you most likely (hopefully) will never fire is cheap insurance all around.

 

I manufacture and reload cas ammunition for a living.

 

.38spl - Winchester Silver Tip HP... live in my carry gun..

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For hunting, reload for the game and rifle of choice making the whole experience your accomplishment.

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In Illinois, handgun deer season ammo requires proveable 500 ft. pounds of energy if called to task by the roving game warden. I carry the box label with me.

 

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In Kansas we killem with vehicles.

I counted seven on the way home from church Sunday; short trip around twenty miles.

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I always use top shelf commercial ammo for defensive handgun loads. I rotate it out each year.

But you are asking about rifle calibers.

As far as rifle loads. I don't actually consider them defensive but they can be certainly if necessary. If you're stocking up for Armageddon there are good bulk deals.

Critters don't really care what they get shot with.

 

I've bought ammo from Cheaper than Dirt, Sportsman's Guide and J&G sales with pretty good success.

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If the real question is which is more relibile, factory or commerically reload, I would say there is no difference. I have seen flipped primers, crushed cases, overpressure rounds new from the factory. Since you don't reload try samplings from the major reloads until you find one you are confident with.

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thank you gentlemen, you have ended my quest..........

almost, what say you about steel cases vs brass since I don't reload?

I see the Russian stuff is cheap but?

Dirty reviews!

 

"I picked up a case of this ammo and it is reasonably priced and pretty reliable, but dirty as hell. In a Mini 14 the smoke and dirt isn't such a big deal, but AR users might run into jamming issues between residue and the polymer coating on the casing.

 

Out of 1000 rounds, have 120 left, and so far had only three bad primers, no failure to feed, no failure to eject through a Mini 14 tactical model.

 

Excellent load for plinking, target practice, and possibly varmint load. This is NOT what you want in your weapon as a defensive or tactical load."

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Factory ammo for CCW. I now reload alot for CAS and practice with my more modern guns. Legal issues have nothing to do with my decision to use factory ammo in my carry weapons. I just feel more comfortable KNOWING the gun will go boom in a SHTF situation. I now use Hornaday critical defense ammo for my Glock 30SF and Ruger Sp101 carry pieces.

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Factory ammo for CCW. I now reload alot for CAS and practice with my more modern guns. Legal issues have nothing to do with my decision to use factory ammo in my carry weapons. I just feel more comfortable KNOWING the gun will go boom in a SHTF situation. I now use Hornaday critical defense ammo for my Glock 30SF and Ruger Sp101 carry pieces.

 

How do you KNOW it will go boom unless you reload it yourself?

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Factory ammo for CCW. I now reload alot for CAS and practice with my more modern guns. Legal issues have nothing to do with my decision to use factory ammo in my carry weapons. I just feel more comfortable KNOWING the gun will go boom in a SHTF situation. I now use Hornaday critical defense ammo for my Glock 30SF and Ruger Sp101 carry pieces.

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10-4 on the Ruger

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How do you KNOW it will go boom unless you reload it yourself?

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Well sir, there is just a lot of hope and confidence, I'd say.......

At my quality, there is no doubt in factory ammo...........

Having said that I'm having ton's of issues round here with FTF on .22's.

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What is ya'll's feelings about the steel cased Russians and others against the brass cases?

I've seen in forums they thing some of the overseas stuff has dirty powder?

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I shoot a lot of Russian stuff in 7.62X39. Search online any brand you are considering and you can find reviews. Some even compare several different Russian brands for reliability and accuracy. Most of the steel stuff is coated, but if I were going to store it for a long time, I think I'd prefer the sardine cans.

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all things being equal I would stay away from the steel case .556 ammo if you are shooting it in a AR. My understanding is the steel case is hard in the extractor. Which is already a weak point in the design. That said I've shot say 500 rds of the stuff in a mini-14 with no problems. And I do have a case of the stuff in in the small arms locker for when the zommbies come.

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For self-defense, factory ammo only, for all of the reasons stated.

 

I buy Ammodirect ammo and am happy with it and with their service and their prices. The fact remains that I have had several instances in revolvers where that ammo did not fire in practice situations. This has persuaded me directly not to use it as defense ammo, though I remain happy with it for all other purposes.

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For CCW I use Powerball in my semiautos for feeding reliability. Don't want to be doing jam clearance drills in the gravest extreme.

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You carry a 308 CCW?

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