Found some old brass - 38-70

[Dick Dastardly SASS #45219]

While restoring the old family homestead house some items were found in the attic. I got some of them cuz I'm the only one in the family that reloads ammo. Among the items I got were some 38-70 brass. I've looked it up and it looks like Winchester did chamber this round in their 1886 rifle. It looks like a good contender for SASS long range rifle side matches.

 

I know that this is an odd duck, but is there anyone out there that's shooting this old ammo? If so, what are you shootin' it out of and how are you loading it?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

DD-DLoS

[Jasper Agate]

Dick,

I have some friends that are using that old cartridge in a new rendition. They are using 12 twist barrels and a 400 grain tapered bullet in a single shot rifle with BP for ranges out to 1000 yards. I don’t know anything about the original loading.

Jasper

[Dick Dastardly SASS #45219]

Thanks Jasper,

 

I'm thinkn' that there aren't many original 86s out there to be had in shootable condition. Loading it in a single rifle would be a simple barrel swap and ream. I'm thinkn' something like a H&R handi rifle could be chambered for it without breakin' the bank.

 

DD-DLoS

[Bulls Head Bill SASS#33692]

http://www.ammo-one.com/38-70WCF.html

 

WOW!!

[John Boy]

Dick, the original caliber loading data, including velocity, is on the Goex website ... http://www.goexpowder.com/images/LoadChart...ridge-Rifle.pdf

At 1490 fps and light wind, no worries that it wouldn't be a 1000yd round. From another source, the BP round energy is 1257 psi and the COL is 2.73

Here's your reamer, at $138 ... http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/reamers2.htm#remtab

If you do go the H&R route, the rifle needed with a SB2 receiver only come in 22 or 24". Might suggest finding a used H&R 38-55 Target rifle that is 28" or 30"(?) and ream it out. The issue here is the H&R 38-55 is a 1:18 twist and the original 38-70 is a 1:24 twist using a 255gr bullet. The bullet will not have the best stability using the H&R faster twist. You could also contact TJ's Enterprise and determine if he can make you a 38-55 liner in 1:24.

 

Anyway you look at it ... you have a project on your hands. Good Luck

[John Boy]

Follow Up:

Dick, I just looked @ the H&R site. They don't make any new rifles in 38-55. So, your only option is to find a used 38-55 Target Model rifle or one on the auction sites. They are scarcer than hen's teeth and you will still have the issue of the twist ratio, but ...

http://www.auctionarms.com/closed/displayi...emnum=9013724.0

IF ... TJ can make you a liner in 1:24 and you buy a 38-55 H&R and the reamer, your looking close to $700

BTW, who made the brass you found? If it is Connecticut - that's real good brass

[Big Jake1001]

Did anyone besides me notice that the rifle on Ammo-one.com that says Winchester 1886 is in fact a Winchester 1866. Nice!

 

Big Jake 1001

[Dick Dastardly SASS #45219]

Thanks John Boy and crew,

 

I just think that this is a caliber that I could enjoy, especially because my Grand Dad carried one for Wisconsin White Tail deer.

 

I do recall being a very young boy and accompanying my Grampa on a deer hunt. A nice buck walked up and stood broadside on an abandoned railroad right away. Grampa raised the old gun and shot. When the smoke cleared, there laid the buck. He was shot in the head. I said "nice shot Grampa". And he said. . . . I aimed for his middle. He never hunted with that gun again. He said it was "shot out". I suspect that it was the corrosive primers that did the dirt to the old gun.

 

Anyway, I have a family connection to that caliber and I may try to bring it back to the family in a new discipline. SASS lives.

 

DD-DLoS

[Dick Dastardly SASS #45219]

I note that the rifle pictured on the web site is not an 1886 Winchester. Looks more like an 1866 to my eye. Anyway, I doubt that any shootable 86s are laying around at affordable prices. Thus, if I want one I'd have to get a "shot out" 45-70 Win 86 and have it re-barreled and reamed to 38-70.

 

DD-DLoS

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Just outta curiosity, what exactly IS the .38-70? From the photos, it looks like a .45-70 necked down to .38.

 

But, looks can be deciving, so if anyone knows, please elaborate.

 

Assuming that it is a necked down .45-70, that should give some general ideas about how to load it. (I'd guess)

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Just outta curiosity, what exactly IS the .38-70? From the photos, it looks like a .45-70 necked down to .38.

 

But, looks can be deciving, so if anyone knows, please elaborate.

 

Assuming that it is a necked down .45-70, that should give some general ideas about how to load it. (I'd guess)

[Dick Dastardly SASS #45219]

From what I can tell, the 38-70 brass tapers all the way from the rim to the mouth with a faster taper than the 45-70. Otherwise, it looks like the same brass as 45-70 only necked/tapered to .38 Cal.

 

Since I'd be loading it with Holy Black, loading data would be all the FFFg powder I could compress under the bullet and card wad.

 

DD-DLoS

[Big Jake1001]

I would only use 1F or maybe 2FF for that caliber. 3F is for pistols, like cap and ball pistols 36 cal-44 cal.

Back in the "OLD DAYS" they loaded big rifles with 1F and .45 Colt or .44WCF with FF, but FFF is for pistols.

 

Big Jake 1001