Any "Out of the box" shooters?

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Henry if you are flying the First National Flag of the Confederacy, that IS the Stars and Bars.

 

The Rebel battle flag is NOT the Stars and Bars. The battle flag may also correctly be called the Southern Cross.

 

I've won a few bets on this one. I know 98% of folks think the battle flag is the Stars and Bars but it ain't. The Stars and Bars has 3 stripes, one red over one white over another red and in the upper left corner a field of blue with white stars arranged in a circle.

[Cascade Charlie, SASS # 48668L]

They can be seen and identifeid here...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_..._and_Bars.22.29

 

Pretty interesting.

 

Cascade Charlie

[Matthew Duncan]

Cocking/shooting a stock gun is like driving a steel fence post with a sledge hammer; possible but why not take the tractor bucket and just push it in? I'm not lazy, I'm old and learned to work/play smart. ...

 

 

Why spend $10,000 to $50,000 (insert your own figure here) for a tractor with a front end loader when a $5 sledge hammer can drive the same fence post?

 

AND I'm not in debt for the $10,000 to $50,000 (insert your own figure here)!

 

OR have a credit card balance.

 

OR have the savings towards...

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

Now Buckwheat, it doesn't have to be a matter of shooting faster. I could simply be a matter of shooting more comfortably and reliably. Not all 'smithing' is done to make folks shoot faster ya know.

 

 

Phantom

 

Gee -- every 1873 rifle I've been around was reliable without a short-stroke. If it's about reliability, and not speed, why are so many people using those?

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Gee -- every 1873 rifle I've been around was reliable without a short-stroke. If it's about reliability, and not speed, why are so many people using those?

 

Give it a rest...you don't understand nuthin.

 

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

If I don't understand, I'm certainly a good student -- please teach me.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Some folk don't want to learn. And if they don't. There mind is closed.

 

And end up like a broken, broken, broken, broken, broken, broken, broken, broken record.

[Matthew Duncan]

Gee -- every 1873 rifle I've been around was reliable without a short-stroke. If it's about reliability, and not speed, why are so many people using those?

 

Someone wants my money, so they design a truck.

 

I like the truck, pay my money and drive it home.

 

I am happy!

 

Some else wants my money, so they design a performance chip for my truck advertised as must have!

 

So I pay the money, buy the performance chip and install it in my truck. My gas mileage improves a bit.

 

I am happy.

 

Will I get a return on my "investment"? If I'm lucky.

 

Is my truck better then a stock truck? Maybe a smidgen. But I like to dink with stuff and help the economy recover you know.

 

So I tell all my friends about my "great" truck improvement and to "keep up with the Jones" they all run out and buy a "performance" chip for their trucks.

 

And the Cowpoke who designed the "performance" chip smiles all the way to the bank.

 

 

P.S. I got a like new in the box Veg-A-Matic for $19.95 I'd like to sale...

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

If I don't understand, I'm certainly a good student -- please teach me.

Those are the rules. They aren't going to change anytime soon unless YOU do SOMETHING about it other than just an ocassional whiny post about it. It's been over a year since you were challenged to find like minded shooters. You can't for two reasons: 1) that would take action on your part. Doers take action. You're not a doer. You're a whiner. 2) Even you have a sense that there just aren't many like minded. Since the rule change all manner of shooter fast to slow have at least made their TOOLS more competitive/reliable/workable.

 

Why? For most shooters that part (gunsmithing or light loading) is the easy part. It's easier to make a tool more reliable than it is to sharpen a skill.

 

Sharpening a skill takes time and effort and determination and dedication. Installing a short stroke kit is just playing with the equipment; it's easy and you can even get someone else to do it. Not so with your skill level. Taking 1 second off per stage means that not only does the gun have to function, but so do your eyes, hands, breathing, transitions, transitions, transitions.

 

And that requires practice. Hours and hours of dry firing piled on top of thousands of rounds. There's the expense. There's the time. There are a jillion other things from kids to wives to jobs to money to a hundred other daily commitments. And the shear determination to get up, put on a rig, stand there and do it over and over and over and over. Maybe you'd have to do it at 4am? Try it for 1/2 hour and tell me you'd rather do that than install the latest gadget and show it off to your friends at the range.

 

A good student practices the craft. A good student wouldn't let his 'story' get in the way of his goals. You say you're a good student, but you admit in private that you've shot one match in over a year due to <blank>. How many hours of practice do you do a week? Every week? Do you have goals? Time goals? Can you load and shuck 4 in less than 4 seconds from the table? Can you get off a 1 shot drill in less than 1.5 seconds? with your rifle from the table? With your pistols? With either hand? Can you reload the rifle in less than 1?

 

Widder is said to have over 1.5 million dry-fires on his SAA's. That's a good student. I recently saw a Deuce video on loading a SXS w/ transition from Xdraw. Even the demo was over and over and over; fast, slow, fast, fast, fast, slow, FASTER, smoother.

 

A Good Student, you say? I doubt it. But, you are a determined whiner.

[Henry T Harrison]

Henry if you are flying the First National Flag of the Confederacy, that IS the Stars and Bars.

 

The Rebel battle flag is NOT the Stars and Bars. The battle flag may also correctly be called the Southern Cross.

 

I've won a few bets on this one. I know 98% of folks think the battle flag is the Stars and Bars but it ain't. The Stars and Bars has 3 stripes, one red over one white over another red and in the upper left corner a field of blue with white stars arranged in a circle.

 

I should never have responded as I did in this thread it was not meant to stir up a lot of problems it was just my opinion on something someone else posted. I will comment no further since I don’t want someone’s topic pulled because of me.

I fly several Confederate flags and rotate them. Everything from all three National flags to unit flags and right now Lee’s HQ flag, I have a dozen different ones. I don’t fly the battle flag out of respect for the feelings of some of my black neighbors. They know that the others are Confederate but the others don’t have the racist connotation that the battle flag has developed.

The Lacy family is firmly intertwined in the history of the Confederacy. James Horace Lacy owned the famous Chatham Mansion located on the battlefield at Fredericksburg and was a Confederate staff officer.

Beverly Lacy was Stonewalls personal minister, and another Lacy was one of Jackson’s physicians at the time of his death.

I picked the alias Henry T Harrison because it allows me to portray numerous different persona under that one name. Again my apologies to anyone I have offended

 

HTH

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

Brother King: My ability to participate recently isn't up for discussion. I'm a SASS member, and have the same right to comment about the way the sport is played as any other SASS member.

 

My objection to short-stroke kits is only insofar as I think they provide an advantage -- and if they provided no advantage, they wouldn't be used. Yes, IMHO, I think there should be one (and just one) portion of the sport that sanctions competition between people who don't use guns modified in this way. That is NOT the question about which I asked to be educated. I asked, as I've never seen an 1873 rifle that was unreliable, and as Phantom said modifications were not about speed, but about reliability, why people are using them.

 

On that question, I remain uninformed -- at least by the person who apparently HAS the superior knowledge that I lack.

 

Matthew Duncan: I see your point about the "performance chip," but presumably you're merely driving your truck to and from your job and in whatever heavy-duty tasks you need a truck to do, not competing it against other people's trucks in competition. If you had a vintage race car, and entered a vintage race, would you think it acceptable to compete head-to-head with someone racing a non-vintage car or a vintage car with a non-vintage engine? Apparently such competition is needed and natural in CAS.

 

I apologize. It was not my intent to hi-jack this thread. I asked a sincere question. I'd like to suggest that further responses be via personal message so as not to continue the debate in this thread.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I should never have responded as I did in this thread it was not meant to stir up a lot of problems it was just my opinion on something someone else posted. I will comment no further since I don’t want someone’s topic pulled because of me.

I fly several Confederate flags and rotate them. Everything from all three National flags to unit flags and right now Lee’s HQ flag, I have a dozen different ones. I don’t fly the battle flag out of respect for the feelings of some of my black neighbors. They know that the others are Confederate but the others don’t have the racist connotation that the battle flag has developed.

The Lacy family is firmly intertwined in the history of the Confederacy. James Horace Lacy owned the famous Chatham Mansion located on the battlefield at Fredericksburg and was a Confederate staff officer.

Beverly Lacy was Stonewalls personal minister, and another Lacy was one of Jackson’s physicians at the time of his death.

I picked the alias Henry T Harrison because it allows me to portray numerous different persona under that one name. Again my apologies to anyone I have offended

 

HTH

 

HTH,

 

I don't think anyone was offended...remember that we on the Wire tend to like to go off on tangents...that's all

 

PS: Thanks to you, I now know who Henry T Harrison was.

 

Phantom

PS: I've got a ton of family history too. My family on my mother's side is Slauson (Slawson). My Great Great...Grandfather came here with his brother in 1642. I've got relatives that have fought in every "war" since.

[Anvil Al #59168]

I asked a sincere question.

 

 

NO. You was just trying to push your same old thing.

 

And it is getting old.

[Knarley Bob]

There is nothin wrong with a history lesson. Them flags was cool, I'm up here in Minnesota, so I guess I be a Yankee. But I do fly a Betsy Ross flag, And a couple 1860 Circa flags, one is a Guidon. Are they absolutely correct, I ain't sure, but I know each one looks nice flyin' on my tipi, be it during a rondezvou (Betsy's flag) Or the other two at a cowboy shoot.

We have a "fast forward" and a "rewind" seting on our time machine. Yeah I know, I had to slick it up a bit to do that. Call me a gamer if you must

 

Knarley

[Bart Solo]

You can sure tell it is deep January.

 

Some people want slicked up guns because they think they make them better shooters, and some action jobs really do improve the function of the gun. For example, based on a training session I had with KC Colt, I am sure my new slicked up shotgun will help my times. It will certainly make my CAS experience more enjoyable. On the other hand many people aren't fast enough to really take advantage of some modifications. Slicking up my stock NMVs might help a top shooter like Phantom, but I have never been held up because I couldn't cock or pull the trigger fast enough. I would be better served by more practice and better leather. A short stroked 73 clearly helps many, but I think a slicked up 73 would only benefit me marginally. Again I would gain more by more practice. I can save a lot of time with better and faster target acquisition. On the other hand I really want a slicked up 73 because the first centerfire rifle I ever owned was an original 73 and I have wanted another for the last 40 years. When it comes to a 73 slicked up isn't much more expensive than stock.

 

Some people want slicked up guns because they don't like the feel of the stock guns. That is personal preference. Some slicking up improves the fit, finish and durablity of the gun. A gun that last longer is better.

 

Some people want slicked up guns because they want bragging rights and, goodness, do some of them brag. The next time you are tempted to brag that you have spent a lot of money buying a slicked up gun remember that SASS has all kinds of members, some are wealthy, some are retired on fixed incomes. Some can afford the slickest of guns and endless practice. Some can't. All of the people I have met are dedicated to cowboy shooting. All of them sacrifice for their sport. All deserve respect. Brag if you must but be aware that the guy or gal you are bragging to might want that slicked up Colt but is already sacrificing to buy stock. A dismissive comment about stock guns is really uncalled for.

 

One thing is for sure, if gunsmithing is needed to make a gun functional (meaning safe to use for it's intended purpose) right out of the box, none of us should buy that gun. None of us should do business with that company. They are dangerous and dishonest.

 

Another thing is for sure, as I said above, it is the middle of January, the stove is hot and a lot of people are getting stir crazy. Personally, what ever floats your boat.

[Matthew Duncan]

...Matthew Duncan: I see your point about the "performance chip," but presumably you're merely driving your truck to and from your job and in whatever heavy-duty tasks you need a truck to do, not competing it against other people's trucks in competition. If you had a vintage race car, and entered a vintage race, would you think it acceptable to compete head-to-head with someone racing a non-vintage car or a vintage car with a non-vintage engine? ...

 

 

But that is what makes SASS unique!

 

I can take my vintage partially restored Chevy S-10 to the "race" and "compete"!

 

Age groups, heathen or smokeless, Warthog or pftt loads, out of the box or Gunsmithed, my choice.

 

Understood that if'n my goal is to be #1 then the vintage partially restored Chevy S-10 ain't a going to hack it if'n others are also trying for #1.

 

On the flip side I could buy the best Indy 500 car and I'll bet you the A.J. Foyt would still beat me, driving my vintage partialy restored Chevy S-10!

 

If'n I want to send a $500 pistol in for $750 gunsmitting and a $1,500 engraving I can. AS LONG NO ESTABLISHED SASS RULE IS VIOLATED!

 

Or if'n I dead set against "mods" (short stroke kits) then I can go join NCOWS...

[Frederick Jackson Turner]

Not real sure how we drifted off into family history - (which won't benefit ME any, because my ancestors were stealing sheep in the Highlands, and horses in the Appennini~ ) but I do know that the SASS LEGAL MODS make my guns slicker, smoother, and faster, and as long as the ruling body says they are legal, I'm going to keep using them. I am following the rules of our little game.

 

I guess there are some folks who would go to the Indiannapolis 500 in the family station wagon, drive around the middle of the track, never cutting a corner, and wonder why all those guys are going around them so quickly.

 

Cheers,

Law-abiding citizen FJT

Still having fun! Whoo-YEAH!

[Guest Dusty Feller, SASS #20010L]

"Guys",

 

I thoroughly disagree with Oddnews; and have stated so publicly in the past.

 

ALL of my guns, except for a rare 97 or two, are slicked up to some extent or other.

 

Yes, I had suggested that he do the work to get such a category going, many months ago.

 

Yes I shoot to have fun but like to be somewhat competitive also.

 

I do find that my 1866 Yellowboy carbines, all four of them, work better after they were worked on. Yes, they were also faster and I really like that part of it!

 

Give all of this, he has the right to his opinion and the right not to be made fun of by those of us who disagree with him.

 

Yes, it does seem to get old sometimes; but that may be some of what makes OUR game so much fun.

 

Do I think he is wrong headed? Don't know, just know that he has not gotten a special category started in over a year.

 

Okay, enough already. Ya know that you don't have to respond to him now dontcha?

[Oklahoma Dee]

I guess there are some folks who would go to the Indiannapolis 500 in the family station wagon, drive around the middle of the track, never cutting a corner, and wonder why all those guys are going around them so quickly.

 

Cheers,

Law-abiding citizen FJT

Still having fun! Whoo-YEAH!

 

 

An their probably talkin on the cell phone ta boot!!!

[Henry T Harrison]

Ok back to the topic at hand.

I am not a competitive shooter and that is by choice. There was a time when I had a wall full of trophies, ribbons and plaques. These were for competition in everything from local to national shoots in multiple disciplines. I quit because I wasn’t having fun anymore.

Cowboy Action Shooting came along and looked like something that would be fun for a change and it has been .I deliberately choose not to be a competitor. I have never seen a score sheet but that doesn’t mean that I don’t enjoy seeing a top shooter at work.

When I started in this game I didn’t need to buy a single thing, everything I needed was already in the gun safe.

None of my guns is box stock all of them have action jobs, some I have done and some done by others. Why? Because I like the feel of a well tuned gun. My rifles are model 92’s I know that they won’t match the 73’s for speed but I like the feel of the little 92 a lot more. I own two model 97 riot guns both worn smooth as snot but I shoot a Stevens double because it fits me a whole lot better and I like it. My pistols are Rugers a matched set of Munden Vaqueros in 45 colt Why? Because I wanted what was argument ally the best I could afford.

There are a lot of modifications that I don’t agree with and I would be happy to discuss those opinions in private since all they are is my opinion. What you shoot is up to you and does not concern me as long as those mods don’t affect the integrity of the game.

 

Hell Phantom I’m even working up a couple of loads for my Ruger 32 mags, I have had then since they first came out, they are great woods walking guns now maybe I’ll try to see what they will do on steel.

 

HTH

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

I should never have responded as I did in this thread it was not meant to stir up a lot of problems it was just my opinion on something someone else posted. I will comment no further since I don’t want someone’s topic pulled because of me.

I fly several Confederate flags and rotate them. Everything from all three National flags to unit flags and right now Lee’s HQ flag, I have a dozen different ones. I don’t fly the battle flag out of respect for the feelings of some of my black neighbors. They know that the others are Confederate but the others don’t have the racist connotation that the battle flag has developed.

The Lacy family is firmly intertwined in the history of the Confederacy. James Horace Lacy owned the famous Chatham Mansion located on the battlefield at Fredericksburg and was a Confederate staff officer.

Beverly Lacy was Stonewalls personal minister, and another Lacy was one of Jackson’s physicians at the time of his death.

I picked the alias Henry T Harrison because it allows me to portray numerous different persona under that one name. Again my apologies to anyone I have offended

 

HTH

What has this got to do with out of the box guns?

[Shooting Bull]

Brother King: My ability to participate recently isn't up for discussion. I'm a SASS member, and have the same right to comment about the way the sport is played as any other SASS member.

 

My objection to short-stroke kits is only insofar as I think they provide an advantage -- and if they provided no advantage, they wouldn't be used. Yes, IMHO, I think there should be one (and just one) portion of the sport that sanctions competition between people who don't use guns modified in this way. That is NOT the question about which I asked to be educated. I asked, as I've never seen an 1873 rifle that was unreliable, and as Phantom said modifications were not about speed, but about reliability, why people are using them.On that question, I remain uninformed -- at least by the person who apparently HAS the superior knowledge that I lack.

 

Matthew Duncan: I see your point about the "performance chip," but presumably you're merely driving your truck to and from your job and in whatever heavy-duty tasks you need a truck to do, not competing it against other people's trucks in competition. If you had a vintage race car, and entered a vintage race, would you think it acceptable to compete head-to-head with someone racing a non-vintage car or a vintage car with a non-vintage engine? Apparently such competition is needed and natural in CAS.

 

I apologize. It was not my intent to hi-jack this thread. I asked a sincere question. I'd like to suggest that further responses be via personal message so as not to continue the debate in this thread.

 

That's not true and I'm surprised Phantom hasn't called you on it. He said not ALL modifications are about speed and CAN be for reliability.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

That's not true and I'm surprised Phantom hasn't called you on it. He said not ALL modifications are about speed and CAN be for reliability.

 

I'm trying to ignore him because it's always the same ol' BS.

 

You are absolutely correct that I NEVER said what he's saying I said. Now in the Political World you would say he Mis-Spoke...in the real world it would be termed something else.

 

Thanks PS for your post!

 

Phantom

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

My apologies. I re-read Phantom's earlier post, and I had mis-read it the first time through.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

My apologies. I re-read Phantom's earlier post, and I had mis-read it the first time through.

 

I forgive you

[Grizzly Dave]

now lets all sit in a circle, join hands, and sing kum bye yah.

 

[Guest Dusty Feller, SASS #20010L]

Dave,

 

You first as I am too worn out trying to be reasonable! It is an effort I will tell ya!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

now lets all sit in a circle, join hands, and sing kum bye yah.

 

 

To He$$ with Kum-bi-yah...or whatever.

 

[Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875]

Brother King: My ability to participate recently isn't up for discussion. I'm a SASS member, and have the same right to comment about the way the sport is played as any other SASS member.

 

My objection to short-stroke kits is only insofar as I think they provide an advantage -- and if they provided no advantage, they wouldn't be used. Yes, IMHO, I think there should be one (and just one) portion of the sport that sanctions competition between people who don't use guns modified in this way. That is NOT the question about which I asked to be educated. I asked, as I've never seen an 1873 rifle that was unreliable, and as Phantom said modifications were not about speed, but about reliability, why people are using them.

 

On that question, I remain uninformed -- at least by the person who apparently HAS the superior knowledge that I lack.

 

Matthew Duncan: I see your point about the "performance chip," but presumably you're merely driving your truck to and from your job and in whatever heavy-duty tasks you need a truck to do, not competing it against other people's trucks in competition. If you had a vintage race car, and entered a vintage race, would you think it acceptable to compete head-to-head with someone racing a non-vintage car or a vintage car with a non-vintage engine? Apparently such competition is needed and natural in CAS.

 

I apologize. It was not my intent to hi-jack this thread. I asked a sincere question. I'd like to suggest that further responses be via personal message so as not to continue the debate in this thread.

 

Oddnews,

 

First off Pard, I don't understand your point about "advantage". What kind of advantage are you talking about?

 

There are all sorts of advantages to having work done on your guns. Reliability and improved easy of operation are not bad things. It is in fact the way man has progressed from the creation of the wheel. The advantage of any well operating piece of equipement is something that millions of people shoot for everyday.

 

As for guns, I have a set of Ruger's that I would love to get some work done on them but there are two reasons that stop me. One is that I don't have the money to do it, and second is that even though they are rough ... they suit my slowness! Anyone who has handled pistols before and after some work has been done to them can feel the obvious difference. For me, it's just not worth my time and money right now ... unless of course their actions become too much of a PITA.

 

And let's be honest here, if a serious competitor didn't have the "roughness" taken out of his or her pistols ... then they're stupid. For one reason, it is legal to do so, and secondly it makes life a lot easier.

 

Is it an advantage to have a piece of equipement operate smoother, more reliable, less cumbersome and troubling than it was before? I hope to tell you!

 

If not, then why would an "Out of the Box" rifle like my Marlin 1894 Cowboy have been built the way it was?

 

Per Marlin: Seeking "constant improvement" became a hallmark of Marlin engineers from day one, and that philosophy has been carried on and demonstrated throughout the 19th-21st Centuries.

 

The Cowboy Competition Models have special “factory-tuning” operations performed on them to enhance levering speed and target acquisition. “Tuned” parts include: finger lever, finger lever plunger spring, hammer, breech bolt, breech bolt lock, carrier, hammer spring, and ejector.

 

So what makes this factory-tuned "out of the box" rifle different from a pistol that is "tuned" after having recieving it? Other than the fact that it's on the shooter's time and dollar, nothing that I can see.

 

[Sweet Beulah Land, SASS #55216]

Just been silently enjoying the jovial bantering ...but, "stupid" is kinda harsh!

 

There are a plethera of reasons a competitive shooter might shoot "out of the box guns"...none of which make him/her stupid. Justin shoots "out of the box" NV because his Papa deemed it so....when he got the guns for his 14 birthday, Papa decided to let him shoot them "out of the box" to build his strength...he shot them fast then and shoots them faster now.

 

Is he stupid?

 

[Cypress Sun]

To the original poster............I like my guns "slicked" up, so no I do not shoot them as they come in the box.

 

If someone wants to shoot "out of the box" guns, go right ahead, be my guest. Please do not begrudge me for shooting my guns with action jobs, short stroke kits and

honed cylinders.

 

As with any piece of equipment I have bought and paid for, I prefer that it operate at it's optimal best. Really doesn't matter if it's a lawnmower, SUV, pair of pliers or a

gun............just make it easier to operate and I'm happy.

 

C.S.

[Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875]

Just been silently enjoying the jovial bantering ...but, "stupid" is kinda harsh!

 

There are a plethera of reasons a competitive shooter might shoot "out of the box guns"...none of which make him/her stupid. Justin shoots "out of the box" NV because his Papa deemed it so....when he got the guns for his 14 birthday, Papa decided to let him shoot them "out of the box" to build his strength...he shot them fast then and shoots them faster now.

 

Is he stupid?

 

 

You're right! Very right. And I apologize for using that word, what I ment is "not practical" ... but I just couldn't think of the words.

 

IMHO, I would think that if I were a Top Shooter ... then I would think that I would want to take advantage of the technology there exists to legally make my equipment work even more proficiently.

 

Since I'm not, my straight "out of the box" pistols are perfect for me. Rough in comparison to a trigger job is just not worth my money to fix.

[Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875]

To the original poster............I like my guns "slicked" up, so no I do not shoot them as they come in the box.

 

If someone wants to shoot "out of the box" guns, go right ahead, be my guest. Please do not begrudge me for shooting my guns with action jobs, short stroke kits and

honed cylinders.

 

As with any piece of equipment I have bought and paid for, I prefer that it operate at it's optimal best. Really doesn't matter if it's a lawnmower, SUV, pair of pliers or a

gun............just make it easier to operate and I'm happy.

 

C.S.

 

Absolutely! Ease of operation is not a bad thing.

[Rev. Sayer Prayers, SASS #64327]

I find the level of resistance to the notion of a category of shooting that caters to box stock shooters interesting. The arguments that it can't be enforced are just as interesting. To say such is to suggest that none of the categories with rules are actually enforceable, which we know isn't true. To harbor any dislike toward shooters that prefer their firearms slick, or box stock is just as inappropriate. We like what we like, and this is indeed a big tent. If we can see our way through to have categories that are based on the notion that certain age groups do not want to shoot against other age groups, or rather they prefer to have a category that allows them to compete against folks of their own age croup; and we have categories that likewise separate shooters based on the powder they shoot, as well as the clothes they wear, or the firearms we shoot, then where is the harm in having a category that is based on the level of modification?

 

I was hoping to gather those of like mind together this summer to shoot accordingly, but a change in career pretty much fouled up my ability to spend time on it, to the point that it has not allowed me to shoot since August. It is rather exasperating, to say the least. What is even more exasperating is to know that there are growing numbers of people out there with the same interest, but no one seems inspired to do anything about it. Until we can organize shoots at the local level, no one at the regional or national level will show much, if any interest in the notion.

 

The nay sayers are not the obstacle. They can't help or hurt the idea. They have no power to influence it in any way because they have nothing to do with it. It is only those who care about it that have the power or influence to do anything about it. As we have seen many times, the number of members here on The Wire who support or are against a new idea neither guarantees the success, nor the failure of the effort. It is the members at the local level who make or break any effort you attempt. It is to them you must turn your attention. But to be successful at the local level, you have to be able to spend time on it and attend the matches. Something that at this point in life, I am unable to do.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I find the level of resistance to the notion of a category of shooting that caters to box stock shooters interesting. The arguments that it can't be enforced are just as interesting. To say such is to suggest that none of the categories with rules are actually enforceable, which we know isn't true. To harbor any dislike toward shooters that prefer their firearms slick, or box stock is just as inappropriate. We like what we like, and this is indeed a big tent. If we can see our way through to have categories that are based on the notion that certain age groups do not want to shoot against other age groups, or rather they prefer to have a category that allows them to compete against folks of their own age croup; and we have categories that likewise separate shooters based on the powder they shoot, as well as the clothes they wear, or the firearms we shoot, then where is the harm in having a category that is based on the level of modification?

 

I was hoping to gather those of like mind together this summer to shoot accordingly, but a change in career pretty much fouled up my ability to spend time on it, to the point that it has not allowed me to shoot since August. It is rather exasperating, to say the least. What is even more exasperating is to know that there are growing numbers of people out there with the same interest, but no one seems inspired to do anything about it. Until we can organize shoots at the local level, no one at the regional or national level will show much, if any interest in the notion.

 

The nay sayers are not the obstacle. They can't help or hurt the idea. They have no power to influence it in any way because they have nothing to do with it. It is only those who care about it that have the power or influence to do anything about it. As we have seen many times, the number of members here on The Wire who support or are against a new idea neither guarantees the success, nor the failure of the effort. It is the members at the local level who make or break any effort you attempt. It is to them you must turn your attention. But to be successful at the local level, you have to be able to spend time on it and attend the matches. Something that at this point in life, I am unable to do.

 

Dude - I'm not even going to read this novel...your first point makes me believe that you've never listened to the arguements surrounding the "Stock" class...or whatever you want to call it.

 

All along we've told those interested to start at the local level and see how it develops. Then perhaps it can become a SASS recognized category. Until then, quit whinning about the fact that there isn't a "Stock" category.

 

Geeeeeze!