Dusty Devil Dale
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Posts posted by Dusty Devil Dale
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Boars, sows and what else? To determine their gender, don't you need to ask how they identify today?
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Regarding the failure to eject problem, take a good look at the lower bolt tab. Its jobs are:
1. help support the bottom of a live round during transfer from the carrier to the chamber, and
2. to support the bottom of expended cases so that they cannot fall downward away from the (top) ejector hook.
Often the lower tab gets broken or broomed to a steep downward taper that allows the case to slip off too easily. (a very slight down-burnishing of the tip is normal. The bolt should solidly grip a spent or live round between the tab and hook. )
The opposite can also occur, wherein the tab is too long for the ammunition being used, so it catches the rear of cases as they rise into clambering position in the carrier, causing a jamb. The solution to that jamb is shorter ammo COAL, by just a hundredth or two.
1873 bolts now come in different configurations. Older ones have solid tabs that can only be repaired by rebuilding with a TIG welder. Newer ones have lower tabs that are replaceable by driving out a 1/16" pin in the side of the bolt. My experience has been that the replacements are usually a drop-in part, requiring little fitting. But that is not usually the case for the top ejector hook. The tapering tail of the ejector, rearward of the installation pin, often needs to be fitted to adjust the up-down position of the hook.
Before I would start replacing or changing parts, I would remove the lower tab (if it is removable) and the top ejector hook and thoroughly scrape/clean out the grooves they rest in. Built up crud under the shank of the hook causes the kind of weak ejection that you are describing.
As a rule of thumb, always thoroughly clean any gun before endeavoring to change or repair anything.
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Widder is right about the cocking force and what I call briskness. If only light force is applied in cocking the hammer, then the second (lower) tooth on the pawl/hand may be filed too low to push the cylinder all the way to the locking notches. The positioning-cocking timing is fairly critical.
A few questions:
1> Which side of the primer is being struck? Is the cylinder stopping too soon or too late?
(after the cylinder rotation stops upon cocking, can you manually rotate it a little further, or does it skip to the next round?)
2> Is the bolt locking tab riding too high so that it is heavily burnishing or scoring the outside of the cylinder? And is the scoring roughness enough to rub and possibly impede smooth rotation?
3> When you remove the cylinder and insert the base pin into its center bore (out of the gun), is it a snug fit or can you visibly wiggle it side-to- side?
4> Is the pawl/hand in original condition or has it been modified?
5> Is the gun short stroked? If so, realize cocking the hammer has to do all the same jobs as on the stock gun, but in a shorter path, so physics tells us it will require added energy to cock the gun, for any given hammer spring tension.
6> Does your wife slip hammer with trigger held back? Does the gun malfunction if individually cocked and fired? (Suspect hammer being released too soon.)
The gun should not come to battery, in full cock, before the cylinder is fully rotated into position and locked. If it does, and it is fired with the chamber & barrel misaligned, gun or shooter damage could result. You don't want the gun to cock prior to the chamber being aligned.
With all of those ruled out, the fact that the gun works properly for a different shooter suggests your wife is short- cocking the gun. Try it yourself, cocking both rapidly and slowly, while watching what happens.
Hope this helps.
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I had a bit of a semantics problem at first. To me the Shooters Handbook is a SASS Rules document.
On bigger matches, I like the printed shooters "booklet". Not everyone, and particularly not people on the road, have easy access to a printer --or to the Internet.
Publishing it on the web also leaves little choice about whether or not to release stage descriptions in advance. I also like to collect the booklets, just for the fun of looking at them months or years later.
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4 minutes ago, Go West said:
Ruger will do warranty work free no matter if you are not the original owner. Pull out all non-stock parts before sending it in or you won't get them back. They will return the gun after fixing and may only cost shipping and a bit of waiting time.
I had one pistol many years ago that over rotated. I sent it in and had it back within a couple of weeks. That gun is still running strong. It is certainly faster than I am at this point.
Good to know Ruger still backs their products. This was not my own gun, and it has been short-stroked and had trigger work done in the past, so my flexibility was pretty limited. But still good to know.
Thx.
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Update:
I tried something simple first. The cylinder center bore was 0.041" out of round over the stop recesses, so about half of that should be the expected maximum increase in gap distance over the bolt catch as the cylinder rotates.
I machined 0.024" off of the top of bolt's lower arm, below the cylinder catch process (where the bolt contacts the frame, stopping the bolt's rise toward the cylinder.) That change did, in fact, allow the bolt catch to elevate by roughly the same amount.
Yesterday, I tested by running 100 rounds through the pistol without any skips or jambs.
It was a band aid over a bigger cylinder bore roundness problem, but a cheap band aid by comparison with replacement or performing major cylinder surgery.
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2 hours ago, Lankyframe #44046 said:
I've got a SKB Royal that doesn't always want to open after firing. I'm definitely pushing the lever all the way over. Most of the time it works fine. It only acts up when firing live ammo. It always opens when dry firing. Any thoughts as to what's causing this?
The firing pin is probably sticking in the primers. Primers may need to be seated more solidly. Primers might also be blowing back, if the hulls have seen a few firings.
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The stage instructions appear to be written to give leeway for unhit plates falling accidentally. It is essentially a plate count and round count stage. Regardless of suspicions, the shooter was clean. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
That's without even considering the likelihood of a separate target interference issue between the P and R target array.
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5 hours ago, Rafe Conager SASS #56958 said:
Ok I'm confused OP states that instructions are "With rifle, engage the 10 rifle knock-down targets." Then states that shooter re-engage missed rifle target so how is it not at least a p for not engaging all rifle targets with their rifle?
They fired ten rifle rounds. One of the targets was already down, so one round only had to go downrange. Instructions do not specify which one. Nine rounds hit targets and one went downrange. You cannot assign a penalty based on speculation as to what target was engaged/missed when there is no target sequence specified. The miss was just the downrange round.
Shooter is CLEAN.
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1 hour ago, Shawnee Hills said:
Seems like "With rifle, engage the 10 rifle knock-down targets" covers that. I read it as all 10 rifle targets are to be engaged with one round each from the rifle . . . provided that it was to be loaded with only 10 rounds and no reload allowed. In the case of the already downed plate, then the shooter must shoot "where it was". Since the shooter did not do that then it seems like he/she earned a miss. Since no makeup was allowed, via "With rifle, engage the 10 rifle knock-down targets", then it appears that a P would have been earned as well. The pistol run was clean.
At least, that's how I'm reading it. May be right, may be wrong, but interested in how this shakes out.
Because no target order was specified, and one round contacted no target, you don't know which target the shooter was engaging. Shooter may have been "shooting where it was" for the fallen plate. Shooter could do that at any time in the rifle string. So it is conjecture to say shooter reengaged one missed rifle target.
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15 minutes ago, Lucky Lead Pepper said:
I think this is a P, but it is tricky. The shooter missed with the pistol, but the instructions allow the shooter to re-engage missed pistol KD's. He does this, there fore no miss with the pistol. The shooter misses a rifle target and re-engages it knocking it down. The instructions did not allow rifle misses to be made up because there are 10 rounds and 10 KD's. Did not shoot the rifle string IAW stage instructions.
I may be wrong...wouldn't be the first time
You don't know for sure which target was aimed at on the rifle miss. He could have fired that round at the already-down plate (shoot where it was).
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2 hours ago, Chief Rick said:
With pistols, first engage the five bottles then place all remaining rounds on the dump plate.
ONLY STANDING BOTTLES OR MISSES ON THE DUMP PLATE COUNT AS MISSES.
With rifle, engage the 10 rifle knock-down targets.
Shooter engages the bottles with pistols.
The first three shots knock over the first three bottles.
The fourth shot misses a bottle but hits a rifle knock-down, making it fall.
The fifth and sixth shots knock over the last two bottles, shooter then engages and hits the stationary dump target with the remaining four rounds.
Shooter then picks up rifle and engages the rifle knock-down targets. There are only nine targets standing due to one being hit by a pistol round.
The first three rounds knock down the first three targets.
Shooter misses the fourth target with the fourth shot.
Shooter re-engages the fourth target, knocks it down and then knocks down the remaining targets.
What’s the call?
All bottles were down and no misses on the dump, so pistols were clean, per instruction.
Rifle may have failed to engage the target that was previously knocked down. Instead shooter might have engaged a missed target a second time (engaged the wrong target). HOWEVER -- no rifle target order is instructed. You therefore cannot tell for sure which rifle target was being engaged by the miss, so it is possible that round was intended to engage the already-down target.
Benefit to the shooter. All plates are down. Prescribed round count was fired. Instructions give no target order. I would call it clean.
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$1500 is a v. good price these days.
My wife and I both shoot BSSs. We've put many hundreds of rounds downrange through them, with zero malfunctions or problems. They have been 100% dependable guns.
I did cut her stock down, because she is 5'3" and I have to hang onto her if the wind blows, but the weight of 26" barrels has not been a problem for her.
Like all guns, they do get regular and thorough care and maintenance.
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There is more to it than just projectile mass. The type and amount of powder is important to too.
For .38 pistols many (I am one) use 105 gn and have no KD issues. My wife shoots .32 H&R mag. using 78gn and rarely, if ever, has a KD fail.
Where the light bullet weights do become a problem at times is not with the knock-downs. Rather it is when spotters improperly use impact sound to call hits/misses, instead of actually seeing the impacts.
The lighter mass bullets make much less impact ring on heavier static target plates. My wife has had that frustrating problem a number of times with the little 78gn bullets.
But if the targets are properly adjusted (most are), the 125gn will knock them down just fine, as long as you meet the SASS Power Factor standards.
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The 2,500lb "Mule Tape" (a flat-woven nylon tape about an inch wide and 1/8" thick) used by utility companies to pull big conductors through conduit is great for target re-set pulls.
It weathers well, even in bright, hot sun. Bullet splatter and shot don't seem to affect it very much. It knots easily, and is soft and easy on the hands.
Just attach it to chain at the target end with a "Cowboy Knot" (that's any knot that holds it). I haven't tried tying it direct to targets, but I bet it would work OK.
The 2500# size can be pricey to buy new, but utility companies only use it once, and they usually will give the used stuff away.
HC, I have a 7,500' roll. I'll send you a bunch if you can't find it locally. Just call, text or email.
DDD
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If you are shooting a dirty powder in light loads, the case expansion is not always enough to seal the case to the chamber wall, and blowback occurs. Those conditions require more frequent cleaning of the forward receiver area and bolt/extractor groove. Build up of crud under the top extractor will eventually affect extraction uniformity. I've never seen crud build up on the carrier enough to affect feeding, but I suppose it could happen. The fit of lifter, carrier and bolt face during feeding is very critical, so heavy build up probably could have an effect. I never let mine get that dirty.
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2 hours ago, watab kid said:
bottom line here is YES , they have far more powers than regular law enforcement here , i have an aquaintence thats 93 and still very sharp , he was a life long game warden here , in an area that had them hopping , he has some really fun and interesting stories ,
Most all wardens have enough stories to entertain you for hours.
Many also give people new to hunting and fishing good coaching, and in CA, a lot of them carry around a pocket full of fishing tackle to share with fishing newcomers, to get them started properly.
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My problem is the opposite. I have a fair sized timber ranch that is a perpetual hunting trespass problem. Our warden force in CA is very understaffed, consequently, it is often impossible to get a timely response when somebody decides to enter property deer hunting, without permission.
If you have nothing to hide, game warden presence can be an asset, as much as an issue.
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4 hours ago, Assassin said:
It's that loading gate detent, spring not the cylinder. I've repaired a couple. Always the same cylinder that skips.
Thank you. I will change the spring. The gate snaps shut solidly, though, and the bolt comes up in proper time.
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6 minutes ago, Null N. Void said:
Call Ruger. They can help.
Somehow, I neglected that option. The DIY in me always looks for what I can do first. Sometimes, that carries a bit too far. Thank you!
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Videos are abundant on the Internet, and they are fine, as far as they go.
Don't be surprised if you watch a video, then take your side plates or stock off and see something entirely different.
There are many tuning/upgrade kits out there and all of them look and operate differently. Many brand new guns are offered with one or the other of those kits installed.
I strongly suggest getting together with a friendly fellow CAS shooter who has experience with different short stroke and spring kits. Get them to walk through a disassembly and reassembly on YOUR GUN with you. That way you will come away understanding how the works function in the firearm that you own. Ask around to find someone who really knows what they are doing (doesn't just think that they do.)
And FWIW, I disassemble the side plates, lever, lifter, carrier and bolt on my '73s after about every 200 - 300 rounds, and prior to any big match.
I shoot light Titegroup loads, and they tend to blow back and be fairly dirty.
I take the effort, because I want the guns to work uniformly, without extraction, feeding or other problems and without excessively wearing the contact surfaces.
Others' mileage may differ and probably does.
Properly done disassembly does no damage to a firearm. Failure to clean a firearm will eventually stop it from functioning correctly. So I take the time to keep 'em clean. JMHO.
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A man has to recognize his limitations.
I suspect that level of gunsmithing is far above my pay grade. It might make the gun work, but I don't have the tooling or holding jigs to avoid really messing up the receiver.
I NEVER alter a receiver.
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A local cowgirl friend asked me to take a look at her Ruger Single Six pistol. It frequently skips past one (always the same one) index recess on the cylinder, leaving the gun out of battery for the following round.
I microscopically inspected and measured the cylinder recess dimensions and spacing, sprocket spacing, and hand/pawl (lower spur) engagement length and angle/fit. I found no differences between the cylinder recesses and no differences or wear on the pawl or sprocket.
When I swapped in another cylinder from her other pistol, the gun ran fine, and the problem transfered with the cylinder to her other gun.
So, I chucked the problem cylinder both, between centers, then from the external circumference in a precision second operation lathe and measured the runout of the hole and the outside cylinder circumference, at both ends and over the index recesses. Runout was 0.037" at the sprocket end, 0.041 at the recesses, and 0.044" at the front hub. That seemed excessive. (By comparison, the other good cylinder runout was 0.011", 0.014", and 0.018", respectively. )
I have been unable to find replacement cylinders for the old Single Six revolvers. So unless somebody out there sees other options, I see only two possible remedial paths.
1) Take a spare bolt and TIG Weld on a longer upper tang, machined 0.040" longer than the original, hoping the longer locking tab will engage the recess on all 6 cylinder stations,
or
2) LN2-Freeze, then Press a tightly fitted pin into the center cylinder bore, then re-bore to spec. a new (round, rather than oval cross section bearing hole).
The first jeopardizes only the cheaply replaceable bolt, while the re-boring option necessitates precision lathe work, and matching of the cylinder and pin alloy hardness to assure concentricity of the new boring. I am less than confident about attempting that work myself. Done professionally, the cost could easily approach or exceed the gun's value.
Does anybody else see another option? I have already replaced the worn base pin. End play on the cylinder is within spec. at <0.005"
All of this points up the importance of thoroughly and frequently cleaning the base pin and the center bore, and properly lubricating both. The center bore is only about 1 -2 mm away from the firing chamber, so the carbon and cellulose crud that you see on the front hub is also blown into the front of the center bore. Frequent careful cleaning is a cheap, easy alternative to some expensive gunsmiting work.
I will appreciate any thoughts or options anyone may have to offer.
Thank you in advance.
DDD
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The Ft. Miller Shoot-out is now only about 4 weeks away, on April 18th-20th. .
If you will be in central CA at that time, this is always a fun and traditional Cowboy Action Shooting event.
There is still time to get signed up.
Observation/Slip Hammer
in SASS Wire
Posted · Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
Try this:
Hold your arm straight, wrist straight and try to move your trigger finger without also causing a small amount of wrist flexure or rotation. That translates into muzzle motion.
Unless you are very unique, you cannot quiet the index finger tendons through the wrist.
That is why I like to slip hammer. My grip hand can remain entirely quiet and Master Grip solid, while the non grip hand does the hammer work.
For me, It has little to do with speed and a lot to do with steadiness.