Fireball #7709 Life

FS/T EAA Witness steel compact in 10mm in their Wonder finish. Lightly used, I bought this new back '19 and carried/shot it very little. Includes 3 total magazines (11+1), 2 RH holsters, 6 new recoil springs and 3 spare mag base pads. Gu8n shoots great and has been 100% reliable with approx. 200 rounds through it. Double action/single action trigger you can carry cocked and locked or hammer down on a loaded chamber. EAA is no longer importing these and they were hard to get even when they were, if you want a very ergonomic steel carry gun (CZ clone by Tanfoglio) in a powerful caliber, this is a great combo. $750 shipped to your FFL. I also have a EAA Witness Stock III in 10mm if you're interested. First I'll take it posted here gets it. 9/7 Listing elsewhere as well, please PM for availability. Payment by personal or cashiers check. Trade interests VIA PM ONLY: M50 REISING, NFA MAC 10, RUGER HAWKEYE PISTOL, RUGER 357 MAXIMUM, BROWNING 71 CARBINE, WINCHESTER 1901 SHOTGUN, H&K P7 M13, BROWNING MEDALIST, MARLIN 67 256 WIN MAG. Consider other interesting, quality firearms VIA PM. Thanks.

Perhaps we need a section in the SHB for things we each want discouraged.🙄 You know, like shadow shooting. 😆 We can now add this "thing", what shall we call it? "Almost dry firing/not quite shadow shooting/I'll feel better if you don't"? That's what I see when I read comments that support the "call" made in the OP. Under things I'd add to be discouraged? Discouraging shooters from doing things that aren't a rule, because someone thinks there should be a rule for it, or in their OPINION, it's unsafe. (the hand wringing umbrella answer, that no one should dare question) If you want it to be a rule carrying a penalty, follow the process, and if enough people agree, it'll be added. There might need to be more separation of "black pin" discussion(less sharing) when calls are made, to keep from muddying the water. Anyone in position to make these calls should refrain from interjecting their personal feels. Quote a rule and a penalty, or make it a no call. This is currently a no call given the information shared.

My colt bucket list gun...

Light synthetic oil on all friction points.

38 special chambered guns, I was shooting up some old 38 short colt ammo that day.

you mean these?!😁

They tend to run good "out of the box", but like virtually all mass produced firearms, can benefit from action work for competition use.(but then you know that) Are you going to get a super smooth, slick rifle from the factory? No. Plenty of folks have trouble getting that from their Uberti, after sending it to a gunsmith.(and you know that too.LOL) They are miles ahead of the Italians in machine work and quality of steel and wood though. They can have a few quirks, but fixes for those are known. There are at least 2 variations of stroke that are/have been available, one is a typical longer length, the other, close enough to the SASS rule minimum I don't notice.(seems stupid they offer both, but they missed the class on efficient manufacturing and poke a yoke principles apparently) Most aftermarket parts have come and gone and/or may be coming(low production runs), but due to the low demand, what is available, when it's available, is pricier. Factory replacement parts are a problem, but I have yet to break anything on the 4 I own and many parts like screws are mostly interchangeable with Uberti. Any parts problems I've seen, tend to stem from DIY'ers, DIYing something they should not have.... For your stock style dilemma, I offer a third option. Mirokus are available with a "shotgun style" butt stock on some models. It does not have a pistol grip, but has a higher comb, allowing a proper cheek weld. It is the same style you've seen me shoot on my Uberti's that I converted to, many years ago. Pictured is the one on my current main match Miroku gun(with factory short stroke links). Look at that wood!! *hand wringer note: this style stock was available from Winchester originally and is legal for SASS.

Randy and I are all good. We all just need to be careful and keep an eye out for each other!

Nothing. SKB's rule the game.

There were a few at Land Run: Darby, Jayhawk Jerry, Happy Appy, Wyoming Double Oot, Cap'n Highpockets, Captain Allyn Capron. I shoot with Ranger John Paxton at several clubs in Florida and Alabama and I believe he now qualifies for El Rey, he also travels to many of the larger shoots. He's an inspiration to us all, usually shooting clean and beating many of the other shooters.

Yeah. So, addressing these. The "shield" is present in ALL Winchester shotguns, 1887 single extractor, dual extractor and 1901 dual extractor. Ironically, the shield on dual extractor guns is half the size of the shield on single extractor guns, as it is cut away to make room for the added , second extractor. Cap had to have it in any variation, as the guns will not run properly without it. Cap was a good promoter, The 1901 was "certified" for smokeless ammo due to the improved steel used in originals and frankly, is probably copied by the reproduction companies due to being the last design in the series. Much ado was made of the incorporation of the 3rd locking point/hinged lever, brought from the the 1901(probably the "something else" you refer to). Ironically, this feature is always defeated in the guns setup for true speed work. Dual extractors were added to the original 87's for reliability in extracting early paper hulled ammunition that would swell when wet, a hurdle we don't have to cross. Dual extractors for our use simply adds complexity to the loading process when "loading two"(a second "hook" to catch hull rims) and complicates the tuning of a second moving part. In true "more is better" fashion, Cap also promoted this heavily as well. Cap also heavily promoted his "Load 2". No one shooting one of these guns at speed (a Top 10 overall shooter at a big match) is using his system, or touting it to new shooters. Cap did a lot to bring these guns to fruition and should be applauded for that, he helped to successfully bring a niche gun to market. We were all learning a lot about these 25 years ago, how we approached the modifications to originals and what was needed/wanted in a reproduction for our sport. I met with him a couple of times and discussed possible changes while he was working on the project, but like in shooting styles, there are always differing opinions of what works best and what is needed. Often, what is the most highly promoted becomes "gospel", whether it is correct after years of application or not. Repeatedly saying something is an improvement, doesn't make it so, competition will find what works best.

In the pictures, on top is an original 12ga, in the middle is an original 10ga, bottom is an IAC "Norinco" 12ga(Coyote Caps). You will notice the IAC is 12 ga length. The twin extractor fiasco is another story. I do not have a Chiappa to photograph, but they are 10 gauge length.

The Marlin carrier doesn't slide in a mortise.

You're going to force me to take the pictures again aren't you.

Perhaps in width? The Chiappa is based on a 10 gauge frame and with the lever open, there will be approx. a 1/4" difference in the opening length. It's part of what makes the Chiappa heavier than an IAC/PW/Original 12 gauge. I posted pics of this a while back, but annoyingly, I can't find them with the search function or on my PC. Due to the weight(the 87's are all heavy), I continue to recommend the IAC(it's lighter). None of the factory "Drop 2" systems that I've seen will reliably work at speed. Lassiter or Slater will need to add their "Load 2"/"Fast load"/"whatever their calling it" to have any chance at reliable loading of 2 shells at speed. I add the clarification "at speed", because you can load 2 on an unmodified gun if you take your time. You can make the Coyote Cap version run fine, if you take your time. If you want to run it fast and competitively, you need the proper work done. Negative. The IAC (that Cap helped with) was based on a several guns. The 12 gauge 1887 was used for frame length. The 1901 10 gauge was used for the extra locking crap and the hinged lever and the unnecessary dual extractors.

Sent ya a pm.

Happy birthday No Buk!!

Prayers and condolences for Wilbur and family.

There are at least three types of firing pins. The very early(a couple thousand) guns used a different firing pin than the majority. That screw retains it. There is no cross pin like later guns/ repro's. 1901's used a firing pin retraction lever, so those firing pins are different. That is also a feature that didn't make it into any repro's.

This illustrates the difference in magazine mounting and 1 screw versus 2 forends. Also the 4th carrier sized screw on the left of some originals. Right, in use main match, 4 digit early gun. Left, Lassiter modified, IAC setup as a match gun. I still use my originals as the wood is less blocky, the butt stock has a better rise for the high receiver on all of them and I think the action "feel" is better.

The 10 gauge guns, both original 1887 and all 1901s were 1/4" longer. The Chiappa is based on the 10 gauge 1901. All Chinese guns and the original 12 gauge guns were 1/4" shorter. In the pics, top, original 1901 10 gauge, 2nd from top, one of my match guns, a very early, original 12 gauge(with early style firing pin), 3rd from top, IAC Chinese 12 gauge, bottom, original 10 gauge 1887 10 gauge(converted to 12). Dual extractors were introduced to deal with paper shells swelling. All reproductions have dual extractors(not an advantage for how we use the guns). Dual forend screws came about with the "2nd gen" originals and the change in magazine mounting. There are at least, 4 different hammers and 5 different triggers in the originals. There are other trivial differences. Number of carrier screws, additional screws for extractor function. IAC's have a combination of metric and SAE screw threads(probably based on a repaired original they copied). The list goes on. A properly functioning original, that has had the chambered lengthened, will function modern plastic 2 3/4" shells fine. The longer ones may barely rub on the way out, but it is not a problem. The amount of incorrect information quoted on the internet can be dizzying. I've lived with, worked on and competed with these guns since the early 90's. It's a passion.

Only a copy of the 1901 in regards to the 3rd locking point(hinged lever), all the "china ones" are based on the 12 gauge frame of the 1887, whereas the original 1901 was ONLY ever available in 10 gauge. The Chiappa is a copy of the original 1901 in size(1/4" difference in receiver and bolt length vs. the 1887), but is chambered in 12 gauge and has the hinged lever locking point.

No mention by the OP what 87 he's starting with. I don't recommend Chiappa's, they're built on the 10 gauge frame and are very bulky and heavy compared to an IAC or original. IAC's are the best bet for a gun that will should need minimal to no repairs, originals will need the chambers lengthened and have a host of other relatively common, but fixable, things that might be wrong. I'll mention the PW87 long enough to say, don't bother, they were the IAC rejects that someone decided to "repair" and sell, they reflect the less than $300 price tag for which they sold at the time. The Mod's. The Drop 2 was engineered by myself and Texas John Critter back in the 90's. It requires specific ammunition no longer commonly available and such, no one is doing it. Coyote Cap pioneered the Load 2 about the same time and Lassiters version (2 Shot maybe? The names only matter when talking about this stuff) I'm unsure of when it came about, but I believe he was messing with them around the same time, possibly a little later. I mention all this, because it matters. They all achieve a similar result, but in vastly different ways. The vast majority of IAC's with the what folks refer to as "coyote caps", are basically a little touchy for consistent, hard work, it WILL allow you to also load and use the mag tube, the same as the Drop 2 did. The "CAP special's"(carrier pictured above) had a different system and did not allow the use of the mag tube(or at least all I've handled wouldn't). Not a big deal for how we use them, but details matter. Lassiters version uses a different system, that also doesn't allow use of the mag tube, but is a much more consistent mod(of those still available) for the way we use the guns. For what he charges, I don't see it making sense to try it yourself and possibly muck up parts that are unavailable easily. There's welding and milling involved, on more than the carrier, he does work to the bolt and the chamber mouth that I know of. The IAC's can need other little things to run right and he may do some or all of those things as well. I suggest you talk to him. As I am no expert on his mod, still running my original version, I don't feel qualified to try to explain all he does.

My main match shotgun for the last 25+ years!

I've sent you a PM @Rancho Roy.