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Captain Bill Burt

RO Instructor
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Posts posted by Captain Bill Burt

  1. Pellet rifles are very quiet.  The good ones, and I have one, will get around 1,000 fps muzzle velocity.  Even with a .177 pellet, it's going to sting and leave a mark, if not penetrate right through clothing.   I hear tell it's hard to tell where the shot came from.  I've also heard that if you leave the interior of your house dark, and nothing is protruding through a window, it can be really hard to see what's going on inside from the street.


    A friend told me that such a projectile will penetrate the body of a Chrysler 300 when it's trying to do donuts in the cul de sac by my friend's house.  I've been told that a couple of holes like that, spread judiciously across quarter panels can be downright expensive to fix. 


    Just some things I heard.

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  2. 2 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:


    But since there were EXISTING categories that easily and regularly accommodated the equipment, caliber and shooting style prior to the creation of Classic Cowboy - and the Dress up component of Classic is so stressed (afterall, I've seen pre shoot meetings to verify and count the dress requirements; yet I have never seen a shooter checking the caliber markings on their competitors rifle) it's existence is not justified by the equipment - but the attire.  


    I think it has competitive related requirements that are unique, as a whole, and valid.  Just my opinion.  With regard to the other categories you mentioned we're in agreement. 

  3. 1 hour ago, Scrub Oak Willie 53737 said:

    Bill there were no penalty assed to the one's that did not holster , fair ? 


    10 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:


    Ignorantia juris non excusat


    Someone there knew that it was a penalty, otherwise Willie would not be here asking about why he was penalized for it.


    And he is right, and SASS recognizes it. By not penalizing everyone that earned the penalty, everyone that did comply with the regulations was penalized. Not a knock on anyone, that is just the organization's statement of fact.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.  OK.  If we're viewing it from the perspective of the TO, is ignorance of the rule an excuse for not penalizing? 


    In other words, if there is a question in your mind about whether something was a violation, do you assess a penalty?  You're at a match, you're the TO, you can't get clarification from the SHB, you're out of cell range so you can't call Buck, you think it 'might' be a penalty, but you're not sure.  Next shooter.


    That's all I have to contribute.  I understand the rule now.  Thanks all.

  4. 20 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:


    ROI P45


    Tough crowd. 


    He didn't know if a rule had been broken Jack.  I would be willing to bet that nobody there knew, so they went with a no call.  


    I'm very ashamed that it wasn't clear to me, Willie should be too. <_<

  5. 15 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:



    Respectfully, I'm not insisting on misunderstanding it.  I saw the post, looked in the SHB, made a good faith effort to interpret what I read and thought it wasn't clear.   Given it wasn't clear to me, I wouldn't have assessed a penalty had I been the TO when this occurred.


    I still think it isn't clearly written. I don't see the need for a penalty for returning a gun to the same place it started from (absent stage instructions to the contrary) but you've explained the correct ruling. I stand corrected and that's the call I'll make in the future.

  6. 18 minutes ago, Krazy Kajun said:

    Following that logic, your long guns were in your hands before you staged them so should they be returned to your hands after shooting them?  Of course the answer is no but you see the logic.


    I'm in agreement with Capt. Bill (dang that was hard to type :lol:  ), if they were  staged on the prop at the beginning of the stage and absent any specific stage instructions to reholster them, restaging them back on the prop would be ok.  When I write stages and have pistols staged I always include instructions that shooter may restage them back or holster them, shooter's choice.  If I had to move to another location after shooting the pistol I would choose to holster it as I could do that while I was moving.  It just depends on the stage instructions and scenario.



    I'm quoting that so you can't change your mind and delete it!:D

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  7. 3 minutes ago, Scrub Oak Willie 53737 said:

    Bill this happened this weekend , I discussed this with the RO and it was decided since the stage did not say to re-stage or holster,that the pistoles should be holstered according to the stage conventions. I know other posses returned them to the sill or holstered them at their discretion. I don't think it is a safety issue , advantage?



    I think it's a ticky tack penalty to call, and I think it's also poor stage writing.  If the ruling is that the revolvers must be holstered (not reholstered, or returned to leather as the rules state) then I'll make that call.  But, I'll do my best on the front end to make sure the required procedure is clarified when the stage instructions are read.


    @Tyrel Cody and @PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495Lfollowing your logic I could say I started the stage with long gun(s) in hand, since that's how I carried them to the stage. 


    PWB I respectfully disagree that SHB 15 is clear enough.  It says reholstered and returned to leather.  The stage in question did not have pistols in holsters when the stage began. 


    Having said all that, I stand corrected, it's a P.  

    • Like 3

  8. If in fact this should be a penalty, then I wonder what is the point of that penalty?  Is there safety involved?  Is the shooter trying to gain an advantage?  In the absence of instructions to the contrary I expect guns to go back where they started. 

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  9. 22 minutes ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

    SASS Conventions are the Pistols are returned to leather Unless Otherwise Directed. 

    1: Stage Descriptions allowed staging of pistols on window sill

    2. Stage Descriptions said nothing about restaging of pistols on sill

    SASS Covenants take over at this point requiring pistols to be holstered at the end of the shooting string.

    To avoid this issue, write, what you intend, into the stage descriptions, or discuss it during the posse leader walk.

    Stage description REQUIRED staging of pistols on window sill.  SASS conventions say that pistols will be REholstered or RETURNED to leather at the end of the shooting string.  That pretty clearly implies that the pistols STARTED out in the holsters, which was not the case here. 


    I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time, but given the fact that ROI says 'unless otherwise directed by stage DESIGN/description, I would not call a penalty for returning the revolvers to the window sill.


    Having said all that, there's no way I get past the stage instructions on a stage like this without specifically asking what has to be done with the revolvers.

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  10. 10 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

    It is a shooting competition.  Period.

    We use a timer, count misses, keep score.

    You (as well as I) may enjoy the friendship and fellowship - but adding even more diluted opportunities for some to buckle have zero to do with that.


    Dress however you like - if it adds enjoyment to your event - do it.


    But don't for a moment attempt to convince me or anyone with an ounce of common sense that a top hat and goggles, a collection of gears glued to your rifle or a novelty outfit somehow hinders your ability to participate in a shooting competition so drastically that you require an additional category.

    That's pretty much how I feel about it.  It's a shooting competition that includes the ability for anyone to dress up and some minor 'dress up' requirements for everyone.  None of the costume based categories appeal to me, but if others like them (and clearly many do) go for it. 


    If folks want to divide and subdivide categories to the point where pretty much everyone is finishing somewhere between 1-3 in their category, have at it. 


    Although I sometimes find it amusing, it doesn't bother me or take away from the aspects of the game that I like.


    The distinctions that matter to me are shooting style, propellent, firearms used, and age.





  11. 8 hours ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

    Stage conventions page 15


    Revolvers are returned to leather (re-holstered in a safe condition) at the conclusion of the shooting string, unless the stage description specifically directs otherwise (e.g., “move to the next position and set gun on table or prop”). A shooting string is defined as shots from one type of firearm prior to the next type of firearm engaged.



    How can I return revolvers to leather/reholster them when they weren't holstered to begin with?


    ROI page 51 says "Revolvers are returned to leather (in a safe condition) after the shooting string unless otherwise directed by the stage design/description."  The design of the stage opens up the possibility of returning the revolvers to the prop they were originally staged on as we're no longer following the convention of having revolvers holstered to begin with.


    In the absence of directions to specifically holster the pistols after the string I would not call a penalty for returning them to the prop they were staged on.  From my perspective this is an example of the need for more specific instructions.

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  12. If I were setting my kids up again I would go with Ruger Wranglers, Henry youth model .22 with Widder soft stroke and Slater trigger, and a Fast Eddie SKB 100 in 12 gauge. I would get my rig from JM Leather.

  13. I taught high school for 14 years, all in the same school, which had a 99.9% black student population and had a grand total of one white man who worked there, me.  Every now and then when a student would choose to fail my class I would get called in for a conference with the student's parent/legal guardian.  Sometimes the race card would get thrown down.  It usually sounded something like 'you failed my child because he's black' to which I would reply 'every student in my class is black' and walk out of the meeting. 


    Since the vast majority of my AP Econ students got 3's or better on their exams, and more than 90% of my regular Econ students passed the State mandated End of Course tests, my Principals always backed me up.


    As others have said eventually the accusation loses all meaning. To me it just became background noise, which I ignored. 

    • Like 1

  14. 4 minutes ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

    How do you send the class link out? Is it the same link with a recurring meeting or is it a new meeting each time with a different link? Just wondering how your students get the link. Thanks for the info.

    We email the link to the students/trainees.   It's a different link each time.  Be aware, one on one Zoom is free.  Multiple attendees will result in a 45 minute session time limit unless it's a paid Zoom account. 

  15. 1 hour ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

    I have that set, but when I start the mtg, that means I have to watch the requests to enter and admit when I'm talking in the mtg. (would be distracting). It would also be difficult to tell is their name is a Cowboy/Cowgirl too.

    The link in the DG page has the passcode imbedded in the URL (encrypted), so that folks don't have to type in the passcode. So if I had two different communication channels (one for a URL and one for the passcode, then that would work). But the passcode would have to be separate and no indication of how to get to the URL.

    I have the chat restricted too and only where I can screen share. --- but now that you bring it up, that might take care of a hacker putting inappropriate images and chats in the mtg. Anyone could still come in as long as they have the URL; the hacker could put an inappropriate emoji on the screen - ugh, hackers! My cybersecurity side of my brain is showing.


    Would be good to have a separate forum with users vetted as current SASS members.

    We're running multiple classes a day using that approach and have not had a problem with hackers since we started using it.  We ask our students/trainees to log in prior to start time so the instructor isn't having to admit people and teach at the same time.  If they don't get into the queue prior to the time the class is scheduled to start, they aren't guaranteed a spot. 


    It's not perfect, but it's pretty good. 

  16. 58 minutes ago, Alpo said:

    You are writing an obituary. You wish to put the college the deceased went to in the obit. The school has changed its name since the deceased went there.


    Would you use the name of the school at the time she was there, or the current name?


    I was just reading the obituary of a high school classmate. It said she graduated Gulf Coast State College in 1974. Gulf Coast State College did not exist until about 2015. I believe in '74 it was Gulf Coast Community College, although it could have still been Gulf Coast Junior College (that was the name of it when my father went there in '62).

    A bit of thread drift here, but my paternal grandparents home was on Beach Park Place, adjacent to the College.  Growing up I spent many a summer night sneaking into the pool and swimming.   The college bought my grandparent's home from my grandmother.  I sure wish I could get it back.

    • Like 1

  17. 1 hour ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

    For reference when discussing this topic with neighbors, may I have the source for this information?

    Joseph Rosenbaum was a convicted sex offender:




    Anthony Huber had been arrested multiple times for battery drugs and other charges.



    Gaige Grosskreutz

    Has a criminal record for being intoxicated and possessing a gun.



    The criminal history of two of them is discussed at the end of this article.



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  18. 1 hour ago, Cemetery said:

    It's report now that the shooter is a 17 yr old from Illinois, who crossed state lines to defend property that wasn't his.

    Based on the videos I thought the ‘not’ militia were pretty disorganized and likely to get themselves in jeopardy. His decision to go there was ill advised in my opinion.


    Having said that, the shootings looked justified.


    There’s video evidence that the guy shot in the head was very aggressive and belligerent. There’s video of the shooter doing his best to get away from the belligerent guy then shooting him after he threw a Molotov cocktail at him and continued the pursuit.  I don’t see how that’s  a bad shoot.


    Then evidence of the shooter again trying to get away, falling, getting hit by skateboard guy, shooting him, then dodging a head kick and shooting a guy brandishing a pistol.  I think he’s in the clear on that too.

    • Like 4

  19. Here you see the first guy to get shot asking to be shot.  It starts at about the 16 second mark (short guy in the red shirt). He asks to be shot at about the 1.05 mark. The skateboard guy who was the second person shot is also in this video.


     Here's the same guy who wants to be shot throwing a molotov cocktail at the shooter (2 second mark) and getting his wish at the 10 second mark.  Video on the bottom.

    And here the mob catch up to their intended victim and find out how guns work.


    • Thanks 2

  20. From what I saw at one point a short white guy is screaming at some of the armed militia 'shoot me n**, shoot me n**'. Later the same guy is on video chasing a guy with an AR and throwing a molotov cocktail at him. The guy with the AR then shoots the short white guy in the head. 


    Another video picks up what looks like the same AR guy running from a mob and subsequently doing what Bob describes.


    There's a special kind of stupid involved in chasing down a guy armed with an AR who just shot someone, when you're unarmed.  Did they think this guy was going to just lay down and get pounded? He already demonstrated he was willing to shoot someone.

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