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Captain Bill Burt

RO Instructor
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Posts posted by Captain Bill Burt


  1. 1 minute ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

    Unfortunately, we have a very small number of folks on the wire who have nothing better to do than spew useless garbage that has no basis in fact or personal experience.  

     

    It only matters if you value their opinion.  

    I do value your opinion and apologize for misinterpreting your earlier post.


  2. 30 minutes ago, Cholla said:

    Sportsman Warehouse near me was out except Federal Rifle and Federal Large Magnum Pistol. I assume Magnum would impact my reload recipe. Any experience there?

    I use magnum and regular primers interchangeably and don't notice any difference.  FYI, my loads are close to the bottom of the recommended range, with the bottom being 2.5 and my loads being 2.7.  If I were close to the upper end of the range it might make a meaningful difference in pressure, so be careful.

    • Like 1

  3. On 6/28/2020 at 2:50 PM, Cat Brules said:


    I don’t think you’ve tied your wagon to a star there, Lucky.  

    Be careful picking your heroes, Lucky..

    Do your own thinking, even for simple things like this.....here, I’ll help you even!  
    -  Can you say:  Nipple pick?

    -  Can you say:  Tiny size, (2 or 3 ounce) “travel size” spray can of wd-40?

    -  Can you say:  Small, insulin injection syringe (for water).

    -  Can you say:  Remove the nipple.....last.
    -  Can you say:  “backup” revolver?  (percussion or cartridge)
    THINK, dammit!

     

    This topic touches on inherent safety issues in CAS/SASS.  The fix for this almost lethal incident is simple, and does not include (dangerously) removing the nipple as the first step.  It always amazes me that few if any people have been killed in SASS/CAS, with the unsafe things I’ve seen.

     

    Yeah, make fun of it, fool.  Yes, absolutely!   Of course a good Unloading Table Officer could/would have prevented this incident.  But, guess what?  Typically, there aren’t any good ULT’s....they aren’t tolerated.  And, No One (especially the no-nothing hotshots) pays attention to, or respects, or follows the directions/orders of the ULT officer anyway.  Awarding a few MDQ’s without Posse Leader-buddy interference would fix that problem immediately!  
     

    In this case, “grounding“ the shooter’s weapon in place, without shooter interference, and pending proper inactivation, then clearing the FTF chamber,

    would have prevented this seriously unfunny incident.  
     

    Look at it this way:  Death actually came for Artie (or one of his fellow posse-mates) that day, but Death got distracted and was nearby, eating a hot dog, instead.

    ——————————-

    PALEWOLF - maybe(?) a brief shooter’s handbook update might be in order.  However, developing a protocol like this might bring SASS its own set of problems.

     

    Cat Brules
     

    So condescending. 

    • Thanks 2

  4. When you holster a loaded pistol with the hammer cocked many bad things can happen.  Quite a few of them can lead to a MDQ.  :blush:

    • Haha 1

  5. 1 minute ago, Waimea said:

     

    I tried two big tents (you still wouldn't fit) and they were not the quality I was expecting.

    The little red tent has been going strong for 5 years. Only one leak and that was during Harvey in Alabama.

     

     

    Not in the cards this year.

    My travel partner is from your area though.

    You might know him.

    He's a gunnfighter. <_<

     

    :lol:

    No he's not!  He's an Outlaw that wears a skirt!

    • Haha 1

  6. 5 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said:

     

    I was at the LT and was the last shooter.  After the guns were checked there was no one there.  I went to holster a pistol and it slipped out of my hand.  This was before I had surgery to repair nerve damage, at the time I had very little feeling in my hand so I had to actually watch what I was doing, that time I didn't watch.

    Ouch.  Good for you for cowboying up.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

  7. Just now, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

    State and Federal law considers a C&B firearm empty until it is capped, just sayin'.

    When the people who wrote that law are the ones potentially getting shot then I'll care what they say, maybe.


  8. 3 minutes ago, Fordyce Beals said:

    If we change the rule to what you think do you still let us off the line charge our cylinders, holster and walk around with balls in the chamber?

     

     

    Fordyce

    Of course!  That's not a safety risk.  My concern, which could be unfounded, arises from considering a chamber that has been the subject of a misfire being considered 'made safe' because it has been decapped. It seems to me that if a percussion revolver has had a misfire it shouldn't be considered cleared and made safe until all the chambers are empty.  Ground it, continue with the course of fire, then recap and fire on the line, or failing that take it too the ULT and get that cylinder empty there. If they're charged after that I don't see how that's a problem.


  9. 6 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

    You would think after the last primer go-around, that folks would learn not to set their gunz up to only work the primer brand that disappears from the market the fastest:excl: <_<

    OLG 

    LOL, or just buy enough so you can ignore short term disruptions in supply.  If this continues for two years I'll start worrying, otherwise it doesn't have any impact on me.

    • Like 7
    • Thanks 1

  10. 18 hours ago, Waimea said:

     

    Thanks, Tequila.

    Appreciate the offer.

    And it would accomplish a major goal of not having to drive through Atlanta.

    We'll meet up sometime but not this time.:)

     

    Waimea

    And we were hoping you would come through and shoot with us!:(


  11. 6 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

     

    I gave myself a MDQ last year, dropped a loaded pistol, no one saw it, but I called the penalty thought it was the right thing to do.  And glad to hear that you stuck around and helped out and didn't go right home, that's the cowboy way.

    How do you drop a pistol and no one see it!  Ouch!

    • Like 1

  12. As Branchwater previously quoted: 


    SHB Page 14 "The Chief Range Officer/Timer Operator (CRO/TO) shall require any misfires to be cleared on the firing line by either recapping and firing that chamber, or by uncapping the misfired chamber."

     

    I think the "or by uncapping the misfired chamber." should be removed as an option and percussion revolvers that have misfired not be considered clear until the ball is verified as no longer in the gun.


  13. 1 hour ago, Cat Brules said:


    I don’t think you’ve tied your wagon to a star there, Lucky.  

    Be careful picking your heroes, Lucky..

    Do your own thinking, even for simple things like this.....here, I’ll help you even!  
    -  Can you say:  Nipple pick?

    -  Can you say:  Tiny size, (2 or 3 ounce) “travel size” spray can of wd-40?

    -  Can you say:  Small, insulin injection syringe (for water).

    -  Can you say:  Remove the nipple.....last.
    -  Can you say:  “backup” revolver?  (percussion or cartridge)
    THINK, dammit!

     

    This topic touches on inherent safety issues in CAS/SASS.  The fix for this almost lethal incident is simple, and does not include (dangerously) removing the nipple as the first step.  It always amazes me that few if any people have been killed in SASS/CAS, with the unsafe things I’ve seen.

     

    Yeah, make fun of it, fool.  Yes, absolutely!   Of course a good Unloading Table Officer could/would have prevented this incident.  But, guess what?  Typically, there aren’t any good ULT’s....they aren’t tolerated.  And, No One (especially the no-nothing hotshots) pays attention to, or respects, or follows the directions/orders of the ULT officer anyway.  Awarding a few MDQ’s without Posse Leader-buddy interference would fix that problem immediately!  
     

    In this case, “grounding“ the shooter’s weapon in place, without shooter interference, and pending proper inactivation, then clearing the FTF chamber,

    would have prevented this seriously unfunny incident.  
     

    Look at it this way:  Death actually came for Artie (or one of his fellow posse-mates) that day, but Death got distracted and was nearby, eating a hot dog, instead.

    ——————————-

    PALEWOLF - maybe(?) a brief shooter’s handbook update might be in order.  However, developing a protocol like this might bring SASS its own set of problems.

     

    Cat Brules
     

    Artie said the discharge happened after he rotated the pistol to a vertical position (pointed at his toe) as far as I can tell all SASS safety rules were followed up to that point. If you’ve seen all these unsafe acts why haven’t YOU done/said something about it previously?


  14. 3 hours ago, Artie Fly, SASS #25397 said:

    Howdy everyone!  I will try to answer all the questions asked and provide any further clarity to the situation.  Thanks for all your comments, some of which prompted me to re-think what happened.

     

    This was day 2 and the 3rd stage of the day.  The guns had been cleaned the night before, so had been fired for two stages prior, and loaded same as the rest.

     

    Bullet was not found and did not penetrate the boot, causing only a tear.

     

    Right foot, big toe.

     

    At the end of the stage all caps were cleared and guns checked as unloaded by UTO.  After this I notified the PM I was attempting to discharge that particular cylinder.

     

    This is where I made a crucial error.  I recapped to clear the chamber, then set it down.  All guns were on the table at this time.  I decided to get my backup pistol to finish the match and I began to reholster the pistol to move the guns to my cart.  I neglected to clear the cap from the unfired cylinder!  While the cap may have been fired, it was still on the nipple, maybe contributing to the discharge. 

     

    Phantom - There was no UTO present at the time, not an unusual occurrence when clearing a cylinder between stages.  My negligence entirely.

     

    Bullet was chambered, no squib.

     

    All that said,  I still believe the hangfire was initiated when I changed the attitude of the gun.  While it was 15-30 seconds after the cap had fired, I obviously did not wait long enough to deal with the hang. The low velocity of the bullet was probably due to a poor load (insufficient compression), fouled nipple reducing sufficient ignition, high humidity, or all of these.  I will of course keep all of this in mind when a FTF occurs again.  Luckily, I am still around to live and learn.

     

    Thanks for all your comments and concern.

     

     

     

    Thanks for your willingness to share Artie. It’s a delicate subject and many would be unwilling to discuss it on the Wire. Your courage and openness may save someone’s life somewhere down the line.

    • Like 2

  15. 51 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:


    As long as the UTO confirms that the percussion revolver is uncapped - or all the rounds fired off, his work is technically done. I don't see anything in the OP that states the UTO was to blame....

     

    And, if we want to get technical about it, it is not the UTO's responsibility, but it is rather the job of the CRO/TO to ensure that this was handled appropriately:

     

    SHB pg 14

     

    Thanks for that Branchwater! This makes me wonder whether the SHB needs a slight change. Since it states that a misfire can be made safe simply by uncapping. How do we know whether it’s a misfire or a hangfire?  In this case removing the caps did NOT make this firearm safe. Perhaps any misfire/hangfire should only be considered safe when the bullet is out of the gun.


  16. 9 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

    Well since Cat Brules will not elaborate on his comment, perhaps someone else would know what an UTO would have been able to do in this particular case that would have eliminated the realized end result.

     

    Always willing to learn things ya know.

     

    Phantom

    I asked for more details for pretty much the same reason, trying to figure out how it could have been prevented. 
     

    I guess sweeping his foot with a ‘loaded’ gun is the problem, but I don’t see a ULT being able to stop that and those of us with the newfangled cartridge guns sweep our own feet with loaded guns all the time. 
     

    I think all I learned is that hang fires can take a long time and may be position sensitive AND once you’ve popped a cap, that gun should be handled very carefully until the ball is definitely out.

    • Like 2

  17. Georgia summers can be pretty hot, but I guess my hands don’t sweat much. When they do I wipe them on my jeans. Works for me.

     

    Sweat on my head is a whole nother thing though. For that I carry two bandanas, one for my face and head and one for my glasses.

     

    If it’s raining Pro Grip helps.

    • Like 1

  18. Fast Eddie probably has a few in stock but I suspect they’re $200-300 above the $1200 you want to spend. He won’t buy one unless it’s pristine so you’re getting a like new gun from the best SKB smith in SASS.


  19. SKB is probably the most popular double ‘race’ gun followed by BSS.

     

    If I were buying a double it would be an SKB by Fast Eddie.
     

    Mid level guns would be Stoeger, Baikal and CZ.

     

    PS, more cowboys shoot hammerless doubles than shoot hammered doubles regardless of what CC thinks.

    • Like 2

  20. 11 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

     

    Leadfoot Artie here!  Word gets around, don't it. 

    Below is a re-telling of the delayed discharge event:

     

    I'm all right, just ended up with a bad bruise, some swelling, and a small open wound on my big toe.  I was clean up until the 9th stage, when my 1st pistol dropped an expended cap into the hammer well and jammed it up with 3 unfired.  So I set that down and fired 4 from the 2nd pistol and the 5th cap did not ignite the APP (humidity maybe?).  I finished up the rifle & shotgun, then moved to the unloading table and cleared all guns.  The posse had finished shortly thereafter and was gathering at the next stage.  I was still at the unloading table and I re-capped the second pistol 3 times with no discharge, then I set it down on the table for a moment.  The gun was horizontal this whole time.  Some 15-30 seconds later I picked it up to re-holster and when I dropped the barrel down the round went off and I felt the impact.  I knew immediately the bullet had hit my foot and I called over Doc Boedecker (who was on our posse) and he immediately began assisting. He removed the boot and bloody sock, cleaned and dressed the wound....

    I want to be clear that I'm not in any way criticizing you or anyone else involved in this, but I do want to ask a question or two so I can better understand what happened and perhaps learn something from this incident.

     

    You stated that you 'moved to the unloading table and cleared all guns'.  How is it possible that you cleared all guns but had a hangfire?  I have zero experience with cap and ball, so perhaps I don't understand the mechanics of what was going on.  To me 'cleared all guns' means that all the guns were empty, no loaded ammo, neither powder, projectile nor cap.

     

    You then recapped the second pistol 3 times, does this mean recapped for the next stage, or recapped and attempted to clear the unfired chamber, and eventually it ended up back in your holster, with a charge and a bullet in it.  My understanding is that capping is the last thing you do at the LT, so why would this happen at the ULT?  Again, not pointing fingers, cause I've had my own share of mistakes, but how do you end up with a gun in your holster that still had the ball and powder from the stage in it?  When a cap and ball shooter has a failure to ignite is the SOP to leave that powder and ball in place, then just recap that cylinder at the next stage, or is SOP to get all the powder and charge out and start fresh?

     

    Glad you're OK.  I've had my own brush with something like this and got lucky, just as you did.

    • Like 3

  21. I went to a SC match years ago where they had a Texas Star mounted on a railcar.  You shot an actuator plate which released the Star, and the railcar.   The railcar rolls downhill toward you while the Star spins.  To make it more fun there was a dip and rise in the rails so the car would slow down then speed up.  Lots of fun.  Proud to say I cleaned it, though I got the last plate with my last shot.

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