Captain Bill Burt

I think that ultimately we'll find that there are some small changes that can be made to expand the pool of people interested in SASS, but I don't think it will/would be a big expansion. I think our best hope is raising awareness and I think Travis has the right idea there. We need a bigger online presence.

Hard to imagine. Sharyn and I shoot 5 times a month and if there were more Sunday matches we would shoot 8 times a month.

I hope it isn't.

For a monthly 9 is ok, so is 10 or anywhere in between. For a big match 8:30 to 9 at the latest.

Do I win?

Mine peaked at 36 last year Max, then dropped to 34. I had it checked a few weeks ago.

If Rimfire is added participants in that category can't be eligible for overall winner. There must be an overall winner. Do not expand the allowable guns to include any non-cowboy guns such as double action revolvers, semi-autos of any kind, or bolt action rifles. Do not mandate target sizes or distances. Do not offer cash awards for performance.

OK then what is Cowboy? I agree with you that we are Cowboy! For sure! But what makes the game Cowboy for me is not necessarily what makes the game Cowboy for someone else. If we don't recognize that people value the game for different reasons we risk focusing on what we as individuals view as Cowboy and potentially alienating and losing members. I don't see why that is counter productive to open dialogue. It seems like that's what we're having now. You're the one who said that "EVERYTHING should be on the table under the purview of COWBOY" but Cowboy hasn't been defined. Speaking only for myself, if the costume requirements were relaxed further I wouldn't care, but many others would. If target distances and sizes were mandated, some cowboys would like that, others wouldn't. I would love to be able to shoot on the move and I don't think it would take away from Cowboy, but that's just my opinion. Would we lose people if we moved to that? Possum Skinner said it. "why are we REALLY dressing up in old west clothes? Why do we have start lines and props based on western movies and shows?" What are the core principles of Cowboy Action Shooting?

This! Though we didn't get too many men overboard on submarines. We did have it happen once next to a tender when a line broke under tension and took a guy's arm almost off. He fell in and got pulled out by a bosuns mate from the tender. Another time a couple of guys were in a jon boat painting the sides of the sub when the jon boat began to sink. That was pretty funny as the boat developed a very large crack and was taking on water fast. A butter bar threw them a bucket and told them to bail. The water was already almost up to the gunwales, so bailing wasn't an option. For the whole patrol the butter bar would walk by a group of people and you could hear someone muttering "bail, bail!' then laughter.

I think that perhaps I'm not making myself clear, or we just fundamentally disagree, or both. It's immaterial what my untouchables are because I'm just one person and it would be 'stoopid' to make SASS wide decisions based on what one person wants. But, since you asked, a few of my untouchables would be, there must be an overall winner, a new rimfire category could not compete for overall, and no double actions or semi-autos. I completely disagree with that statement, and I contend there's no rational basis for taking that approach. That approach assumes that there is nothing special that's an integral part of our game, anything can be changed and it can still be CAS. No way! This! My contention is that there are aspects of the game that cannot be changed without transforming the game into something that many of us would rather not play. I think it's incumbent on those who seek to make changes to identify the core elements of the game that shouldn't be changed. Perhaps for you there are no such elements, but for others there certainly are.

I knocked a guy out once with a beer bottle. I believe it was a Molson. He got in a couple of cheap shots while I was using a urinal, but didn't realize that while one hand was occupied the other was holding a beer. He went down like a puppet with his strings cut. The Shore Patrol hauled us both in, got him some stitches, then took our liberty cards.

Me too.

Ok, thanks for responding. I think it’s best I leave you to your thread as it appears we have different visions of SASS. I can think of quite a few things beyond ‘playing cowboy’ which should not be subject to change.

I don’t believe I said that anyone said anything about significantly changing the dress code. I used that as an example for obvious reasons: it’s a sore spot for some. Not sure about your drawl comment. They’re pretty common ‘round here. I think you’re wrong, there are plenty of cowboys who would make radical changes given the opportunity. I think there are definitely nonnegotiable aspects of the game and I think it’s a good idea to try to nail those down.

I think it’s also important to have aspects of the game that are not subject to change. Change the wrong thing and we might lose more people than you gain. For example a rimfire category that’s not eligible for overall probably wouldn’t run anyone off. Significant weakening of costume requirements might. In addition to establishing what might attract new shooters we need to ascertain what the big attractions are for current shooters so we don’t change those.

One of a kind talent and person.

I’ve never met you in person, though you did promise you were coming to Georgia so there’s still hope. Therefore I can’t comment from personal knowledge. However, I have had at least 5-6 people who’ve followed our Wire exchanges tell me that you’re very different in person (much nicer). They meant those comments to reflect well upon you, so I tend to believe them. Maybe they’re wrong, or maybe you’re not the best judge of how your posts come across sometimes? As you said to Abilene, that’s not an insult, it’s an observation. Now to the topic at hand, I tend to agree with you and Widder. Adding Sharpshooter type distances increases the accuracy challenge while decreasing the challenge of running the gun. I think the net effect varies depending upon the person. Accuracy has always been easy for me. If I can see it, I can hit it. Running at high speed is harder, for me. So for me Sharpshooter might actually be easier, though less fun from my perspective.

If we accept that the two biggest obstacles are the dress requirements and the cost of equipment where does that leave us? On the high end a person could spend $2,000 on a rifle, another $2,000 on a set of pistols and $1,400 or so on a shotgun. Add in a good rig and you're close to $6,000. On the low end a pair of Uberti pistols could be had for $900 or so, a Stoeger for $400 and a '92 for around $500 for a total of $1,800, plus the rig. I don't see how eliminating any one of those makes that big of a difference in cost, at most you can get rid of the rifle and get it down to $1,300. Yeah I may be off by a $100 one way or the other, but those numbers are close enough to talk about. OTH, if you let Greenhorns shoot .22s you can get the price way down, probably under $1,000 for all four guns. With respect to dress requirements, I think it's all in how it's presented to the prospective shooter. The requirements are not that stringent. When I shoot about the only things I'm wearing that I wouldn't otherwise wear are my Ariats and my hat. Jeans, long sleeved shirt, a hat and appropriate footwear and they're good. Speaking only for myself, if that's too big an ask for a new shooter, what are we left with, no dress requirements at all?

We need more cowboys with that attitude!

That’s why I suggested an extra fee, or maybe shoot throughs are lost brass matches. I’m not suggesting we do it, I’m suggesting it’s worthy of thought.

The idea of more time together has been floated. I'll go the opposite direction. How about more options to shoot through? Perhaps with an additional fee to make up for not doing posse chores. Many of our shooters are retired and spending a nice morning and afternoon shooting and then later eating and drinking with friends is what they want. I don't think that's the case for all of our shooters though. Younger shooters can be impatient with an entire day on the range, and those of us still raising children can struggle to allocate 4 or 5 days a month spent entirely at the range.

Not for me no. Do away with that and I’ll shoot somewhere else, or switch to a different shooting discipline, maybe three gun.

Because it matters to quite a few people?

I don't think that speculation with negative connotations is appropriate. Occam's Razor, everyone of them is getting on up there in years, some are way past when most people are retired. The simplest assumption is that they're ready to relax and just enjoy matches. Having worked together for almost 40 years they are leaving together. No need for hidden agendas, secret agents, or lava bubbles under Founders Ranch, just a group of people who are stepping back after 40 years of work.

Not only that, there's a big upfront expense to host something like that. All that money spent for a single event means very little profit. It might be worth it if there was some type of rotation and the club knew they would be hosting the event again in a few years.