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Territorial Governors
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Posts posted by Snakebite

  1. There is no doubt that it happens. The basic idea of the 180 (170) is OK. I recall the issue of a common firing line where the loading/unloading tables are set right on the line. A shooter that stands back from the line vs a shooter that hugs the line would have a wider cone, that might bring the Loading/unloading table into that cone. IMO the 170 call has always been somewhat subjective as to whether it was just inside or just outside the cone. If it is just outright flagrant, then there is little doubt, other wise there are hairs to split. This is all covered in the RO III. As last I remember, BJZ has a good grasp on it.  JMHO JMO



  2. I appreciate all who have given me feedback on this thread. I remember the Long Range side matches at EOT in the early 90s. They were really not very long at all. They were actually less than a 100 yds. They were shot at paper targets and you were given a finite amount of time to get your shots completed.  Usually 2-3 min. When the time was up, all guns were checked and shown clear, you went down range and collected your target. The best group was the winner. Only the three best groups were kept. The entire process took only a few minutes and then you moved on to the next side match. It seems that some of the Long Range matches today are a far cry from those humble beginnings, and have become an event unto themselves.



  3. I have some questions about the Single Shot Long Range events at you Club's annual match.


    1. Is it held on the same day as the other side events?

    2. Do you charge to shoot it?

    3. Approx what is the average time it takes for each shooter to complete the course of fire? 

    4. Do you use time as a tie breaker?

    5. Do you allow shooters to shoot the course of fire again for a better score?


    Thanks, Snakebite

  4. 2 hours ago, Hells Comin said:

    Would someone please explain the sass default position. 

    For Some reason I thought there had been a change to the meaning that's currently in the shooters handbook. 

    Yeah, I'm a bit lost myself, and I try to keep on top of things. Last match I wrote I got my Back Side jumped on after using the term Default. Was told that it is no longer to be used. Duh, can't help but wonder if this was another wave of the hand mandate. Anyhow, to stop the whining I just changed it to hands at side. Geeze!



    • Haha 2

  5. 2 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

    I'm just asking, because there is confusion out here.  A person running these matches needs to be able to conduct the match, assign helpers/spotters, etc, and answer questions correctly without using intuition.   

    The person running the match, would be the Match Director. He or she should, and probably does know, that the SASS Shooter's Handbook spells out very clearly what guns may be use at a Cowboy Action Shooting Match. (section 6)There is no standard as to how the speed events are run or scored, but I've never seen a Speed side match run any other way than the by number of hits in the fastest time. 

  6. 1 hour ago, Morgun Play said:

    I’m a friend of El Hombre Sin Nombre and no state champion either, but I’ve always been interested in attending the Fort Miller match.  If it’s a Johnson match I should let you know my guns are small in diameter but they sure are short. Hope I’m able to attend. Hi 

    I'm sure they will be able to reach the targets.



    • Haha 2

  7. I have one of the Lyman T-Mag presses that I use for the occasional odd cartridge loading or the Big Bore stuff. It is a fabulous machine. I sounds like this new one with eight stations might be a good machine too. That is sure a good price. I quit shopping at Midway a long time ago because they were usually higher priced on just about everything that I tried to buy. Good to see that they might be coming competitive again. 

  8. As you probably know, if used for hunting in California, they must not have any lead in them. If you can't find any solid copper bullets, you can cast you own using Bismuth. They are a little less in weight for any given Lead casting, but they work and are acceptable for hunting in California. I did this for my 38-55. When I sent in the spec for approval to the Dept of Fish and Game, they put me on their list as a manufacturer. Well, I am not a manufacturer. Since they have me listed, I've received plenty of contacts wanting the bullets... what a pain! You can buy a chunk of Bismuth on ebay sometimes for a decent price. Trying to use Shot is too expensive. The bullets are very brittle and you must be carful with using too tight of a crimp... but they do work. Another thing that is nice to know.... they look like a lead bullet. The Game wardens have no way to test them and would be hard pressed if they denied your claim that they were Bismuth and not lead. 



    • Thanks 1

  9. 21 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

    The Gunfight Behind The Jersey Lilly back in the day was one heck of a match. Of late, because of range issues it’s fallen on hard times but it’s coming up this weekend and if I know Smokestack and and the rest of the bunch that put the match together it’s going to be lots of fun.


    I’ve never shot a match at EOT but there is just something about making the trip to Founders Ranch in New Mexico each year that just gets in my blood. Come January I’ll start planning and EOT is always the first trip listed on the page, it’s that special to me.


    I’ve  been to Winter Range as a visitor many times but in 2020 I’m shooting the match and I hope it becomes just as special as EOT is to me.


    When the construction is complete at Cajon the Legends Of The West Match will be back in business and IMHO its one of the best matches going. Bear Trap and company know how to stage a cowboy match that really satisfies.


    The Crap  Shoot at RR Bar is another one that is a must do. The facades, location and the Lions Club that runs the range and the kitchen keep everyone smiling, fed and content. I hear through the grapevine that the California State Championship will be held here starting in 2020!!!!!


    The Western Divisional at Chorro Valley is probably one of the nicest locations for a CAS match that you’ll find. Great weather and just a few miles from the coast make it a great location and Sinful and El Laso know how to write fun stages. The Saturday night shrimp and prime rib dinner is truly amazing.



    If you've got any gas left after the RR Bar next April, come give us a try at Fort Miller, it's two weeks later. 



    • Thanks 1

  10. I've had some success with tight screws using a drill press. Get the part set in a padded vise. Put the right size screw driver bit in the drill press chuck. DON'T TURN ON THE DRILL MOTOR! Just turn the chuck by hand while you hold downward pressure on the chuck with the drill press. Often the bumping action and the associated weight of the pully system will break the screw free.



    • Like 2

  11. 1 hour ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

    I know. I get it. I was just trying to be funny. Looks like I failed. Time to fire my writer and get a new one

    Hey come on down to the Fort Miller match next April... you can be State Champion here, it's OK with us. :D



    • Haha 1

  12. Too tough of a question to nail down to just one match. Of course WR is gonna be hard to beat. EOT has put on some dandy matches, and every year the Western Regional at Chorro Valley is great! I must admit that I love our Fort Miller match in the Fresno Area in April. It has a lot of Old Time Flavor on a great Cowboy Range. Peace in the Valley, in ND. was just wonderful... wish they were a bit closer to California. I'm looking forward to a return to the RR Bar range for the next California State match, and sometime while I'm still able to get around, I would love to attend Commin at cha. I've heard nothing but good things about what T Bone and crew do. WOW... there are great matches everywhere!



  13. Rule enforcement can be difficult at times. I have found that new shooters accept enforcement much better than some very experienced shooters. The experienced shooter may have been doing it for years, and never been called on it. They usually know that it is wrong, and when someone calls them on it, they get mad. By the time the story gets around they have put a Spin on it to try and make it look like it is your fault. I have seen this at all levels of the game, from World Champions down. One famous Champ showed up at  WR wearing Rocky Swat team boots. I called him on it and told him to get them changed. He did, but the word spread that I was a Hard Ass. Another Champ's wife moved with the posse at EOT. If he did anything wrong, she would yell "Stop", and he would stop and demand a restart because someone yelled stop. I didn't allow it and made him finish the stage. He appealed the call and lost.  A women on the posse that shot with him regularly said that she had seen the same things happen before with him and his wife, and the T.O. would allow him a restart/shoot. One guy came to me asking for a reshoot for his son because one pistol did not fire due to the cylinder pin being pushed in to the safety position. He said that it was his fault not the boys fault. Sorry, but that didn't matter, the kid had to take the 5 misses. He continued to argue about it when I noticed that the grips on both hand guns had electrical friction tape wrapped around them. I pointed it out and told him to remove it before the next stage. He exploded and said that the grips were cracked and the tape was needed to hold them on. At first I thought that it had just happened and that it was a quick on the spot repair, but wondered if the grips on both guns had just cracked. He said that he had been shooting with them that way for the past few years, even at EOT and WR and nobody had ever said anything about it. Fact is, he knew what he was doing. I told him to fix it before the next stage, and he did..... but by the time he put a spin on the story with his many friends, I was the Bad Guy. Rule enforcement can be difficult. I try to cut as much slack as I can, but some things are just so flagrant that they must be addressed. It will never change. Just be fair and honest. If you can find a legal way to help the shooter out of the problem, then do it. I don't roam the field looking for something to ding people on. If you do, you will certainly find plenty, at any match you go to. 



    • Like 11
    • Thanks 3

  14. Of course it is a violation, but I have never seen a shooter at the loading table make a issue of it when the person in front of them loads a handgun, and then sweeps him while holstering it. No, of course it does not happen all the time, and our shooters are generally very responsible, but getting swept by a loaded handgun at the loading table is IMO much more likely than it happening during the course of fire. An active LTO could help deter that from happening. Just knowing that someone is watching encourages the person loading to not be cavalier with his/her actions. So to answer your question,  Yes, I am indirectly saying that when no one is watching the shooter load, then it is much more likely to happen, and is therefore not enforced. 



    • Like 2

  15. 8 hours ago, Don Coyote, SASS #63736 said:

    I agree. But what I haven't seen is a directive to local clubs that this is a required procedure. Rather than relying on local TGs to spread the rule, would be nice if some sort on communication would come from the SASS office. Most SASS affiliated clubs include the phrase, "all SASS rules apply" in their shooters meeting. If "LTO duties" in whatever form are not a part of the LT procedures, are we lying when we use that particular phrase? Just asking.


    There is only so much that can be done..... the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink", applies. My comment was really just a bit of sarcasm, since I have beat this horse to death over the years, using the exact same examples that you used. Enforcement of the rules does indeed start at the top of the game, but the fact remains that rule enforcement can only be accomplished at the Club level. If the rules are not enforced at our Major events, then it becomes more likely that they will be disregarded at our local events. I believe that more people are swept with loaded firearms at the Loading tables than at any other location on the Firing Line. The LTO is an important position. If another shooter is to be used as a "temporary" LTO, then that person should take the job seriously while doing it. He/she should NOT continue to load their own guns while inspecting others. Just step out of character for the moment, be the LTO and do a proper job of it. Then become a shooter again and let the next person at the LT assume the mantle of LTO. It is NOT as good as having a dedicated LTO, but it is far better than nothing at all, which is what is now happening at far too many matches.



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