H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

No idea. Here's my two .32-20 Bisleys. You can see how the front sight is lowered. I've read that, generically, that guns in this caliber tend to shoot low, and that lowering the sight brings them up to a more accurate point of aim. Since all 3 of my SAA hit where I aim with lowered sights, I assume there is something to it. The blued gun, which as stated is a no records of one, sure looks honestly aged, and I'd be surprised to learn if was not all original. The bottom has a letter that says blued, .44/c. You can see how the ejector is still blue, but the nickeling was clearly done a while ago, and I don't believe the grips are original. But you know, all of that allowed me to afford this gun, so I am not complaining. Any telltale signs of what is or is not original are of course obscured by the refinish. I still find the caliber redo to be a bizarre one in that I saw a video on Forgotten Weapons that said over half of all Bisleys were in fact, .32-20. So that makes me wonder. As far as the Frankengun in .22 Hornet goes, yeah, it is, I am of the opinion that everyone should own at least one Frankengun. But that's a topic for another thread.

Hmmm... Well, you can see here how converting to .22 Hornet was more than swapping barrels and lining the chambers on the cylinder. The frame is a Bisley, but the grips is regular SAA, and yes, the front sight has been modified. For that matter, all 3 of my First Generation .32-20's have had the front sight lowered.

Okay... Never seen that, but I am not surprised. I have seen .44-40 boxes labeled for use in the Winchester 92 only.

It runs perfect. Factory ammo is just a little too long, but with reloading, that becomes a moot point. I used the Trailboss "formula" to find a loading for it. It is a very nice shooting gun. I asked if I could try it at a local shoot, and nobody had a problem with me doing so. It worked quite well, and while quieter than a .32-20, it still had a respectable report. I have read that one of the reasons Colt never chambered the SAA for .25-20 was that there were issues with binding and such. I have often wondered if those issues were caused by black powder, and if it'd work with smokeless. Probably never know.

No. Here's a little more detail. As stated, I use Green Dot in 16 and 20 gauge, 12 grains. Seems to work well with minimal recoil. I had read that 10 grains of Red Dot was a good load for 12 gauge, so I tried it. Turns out to be an embarrassing mouse fart of a load. My original 12 gauge load was 16.4. A great load for trap shooting, but more than needed for SASS, and in a lighter weight shotgun, a shoulder thumper. That prompted me to look for a lighter load, and the 10 grain one. Well, after being disappointed by it being too weak to work properly, I upped to 12 grains of Red Dot. Still mild recoil, but enough oomph to knock stuff down. I have reason to believe that Green Dot could work in 12, but have not tried it yet. I'd try to find some data for 12 Gauge Green Dot rather than make an assumption based on what works in the smaller gauges. I did find the 12 grain loading in published data for both 16 and 20, but I don't remember where. My own recommendation is as follows; find the minimum published load for the powder you wanna use. See if it's strong enough. If it is not, add 2 grains of powder and try again. Keep doing so until you find what you like, or are within 2 grains of the max load, whichever comes first. Don't go all the way to the max. Good luck

Well, it's a rather small sample size, but so far, all of the conversions were 1st Generations. Cooincidence? To Irish and Ailene, is there any tell tale evidence on your gun that makes it obvious upon a close look that the changes have been made or is your letter from Colt the only evidence?

An interesting aspect of collecting SAAs is that you will sometimes come across ones that have been converted from their original factory calibers to something else. I have three First Generations that this has been done to. Two of them have been converted to .32-20 from .44-40. Apparently this was a common mod that was done in the 1920's and 1930's for some reason. I'd assume people just wanted one in the small caliber, and it was easier or less expensive to convert an existing one than to buy a new one. Strange, but understandable. Both of mine were very well done. One of them it is rather obvious when you take a close look, but the other one was clearly done so long ago and so carefully that if I didn't have a factory letter saying it was built as a .44, I'd think it was all original. The third one is a very odd duck. It began life as a Bisley in .32-20, and is now a standard SAA in .22 Hornet. This one is far more intriguing to me. Both of my .32-20s I got because they were .32-20s and I wanted guns in that caliber. But this one, I did a double take when I saw it, and grabbed it rather quickly. Even though it is not factory original, it is quite a fascinating bit of custom work. And I think this opens the door to the most interesting part of the topic; how many SAAs are floating around out there, not only not in their original caliber, but that may have been changed to a caliber that Colt never offered? Or perhaps only offered in very limited numbers. It is an intriguing question. Barring any documentation, which is probably the case for 99-44/100% of them, there is no way of knowing who did the mods, when they were done, or why, but I do find the question an interesting one to ponder. Some would say that "collecting" such guns is foolish. Because of the modifications, they have "no collector value." Well, maybe in the strictest sense of collecting this is true, but not everyone collects for "investment value." Some collect just because a particular piece is of interest to them. My .44-40 to .32-20 conversions are nothing special. But that .22 Hornet conversion has made me want to start looking for more things in strange calibers. Maybe there's an SAA floating around out there in .25-20. Or some other caliber that they were never made in. Anything is possible. Anyone have anything that "qualifies?"

That's $497 Canadian, in a store in Canada. That's $352.80 American. Reasonable price. But I need a store in the USA. Getting just the unit and installing it on an old Hopkins & Allen would be fun, but I have a feeling that they are so purpose built that they can't be just bolted on to a random single shot.

I have always wondered about this. On the one hand, if you commit a crime, there should be consequences. But on the other, the blanket lifetime ban is troubling. Once you are released from prison, you have "paid your debt to society" and your rights are returned to you, except for the right to own and carry a gun. It essentially amounts to perpetual punishment. Now, perhaps for some specific crimes, as determined by law, this might be advisable. But at least for non-violent crimes, it seems like overkill. Of course, this has far reaching implications beyond just gun rights. The arguments against a lifetime prohibition on gun ownership could just as easily be applied to things like a "sex offender registry." Of course, owning a gun is a right. Keeping your criminal past a secret is not a right. It's complicated.

This one looks pretty affordable. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1188900733 Might be just about perfect for our game... I might grab it myself....

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Okay... Just watched the video. That is wicked cool! I wonder if it'll do better with Magtechs? Ugh... Screw in chokes. I'd be very seriously considering taking it to a gunsmith to have the finish redone in something more traditional looking. Can you imagine having one of these at a shoot and seeing the stage instructions say, "Shotguns may be stoked!" I wonder how much they will go for if they are imported into the USA.

Darn! I want one! No way they ever could, or should, be SASS Legal. But you know, if anyone ever organized, not a category, but a Steampunk SIDEMACTH, where the premise is to take 1800's tech to a logical, or even goofy, extreme, this would fit in. Right along with a shoulder stocked Broomhandle for the rifle and a pair of Mare's Legs for the pistols. Nah... Never happen. But I do have to say that the pics look like it has been far to modernized for my liking.

I like it. I've heard something similar over the years. "English is the result of Norman nobles consorting with Saxon maidens, and the resulting language is no more legitimate than any of the other fruits of those unions."

Part of the beauty of English, and the part that drives non native speakers mad, is how we have multiple terms that essentially mean the same thing. We also have words that, if by strict definition the usage is "incorrect," it is usually perfectly understandable to almost everyone because colloquial usage has shifted with time. I think that's okay, irregardless of what the grammar snobs may try to assert. But I would like to find me one of them thar 50 caliber clips I heard tell about.

Now, I'll freely admit that mine is a minority opinion, but, as others have said, it is what works best for me. I feel that the ideal length for a barrel is 30" with a full choke. This is the exact opposite of what most will say, who will tell you 20" with no choke. Let me tell you how I arrived at this opinion. My first ever shotgun that I used for SASS is a 20" no choke Winchester 97. It was purchased to be used for that purpose. I bought it because I thought the gun was really cool looking, and that it would be fun to use. These opinions have not changed. My second shotgun that I only used occasionally, was a 19" Parker with no choke. This gun I had from my father. I will never change my mind that the Parker was, and remains the best double barrel shotgun ever many in this or any country in the whole wide world. Some will tell you that they are too nice to use in our game. Well, poppycock. Sure, if you've got a $25,000 one I'd be hesitant too. But decent condition shooters can still be had for less than $1000, so go for it, if that's what suits your fancy. Now, as much fun as both of these guns are to shoot, I had a problem with them; far too often I failed to knock down the shotgun targets. I figured maybe I was doing something wrong. It certainly wasn't my ammo. I was using the same load my Dad used for a years as a trap shooter, and in the Parker, it's a real shoulder thumper. I don't know if I wasn't aiming properly, if the pattern was too spread out, or what. It was just reality. But I had no idea what could be done to correct the issue, other than keep practicing. Anyway, after I'd been in the game for a couple of years, I decided I wanted to get a "long barreled" 97, just to have one. Found one with a 30" full choke barrel for a good price, and all was well with the world. It was a bit more worn than my original 97, but it was still a useable gun. I decided I would take it to my next shoot, just for a lark, to see how it shoots. Well, to my surprise, I found myself acquiring the SG targets faster, and my failures to knock them down all but vanished. In fact, on the rare occasion when it still happens, I know what I did wrong; I was too quick on the trigger and fired before I was properly aimed at the target. I can't prove it, but I think the tighter pattern from the long, choked barrel hits harder than the more spread out one because more of the pellets actually HIT the target instead of going around it. I can't prove that, but that's my story, and I am sticking too it. Or, more simply, I just know I hit more reliably with the longer, tighter choked, barrel. Not too long after that, I found a 30" Parker with F/F chokes, and it has MUCH less recoil than the short barrel one does. That is, perhaps, important as well. Longer barrel means more weight, means less recoil. (I have also switched to a lighter load, but that's a different topic. Even with my Dad's trap load, the heavier gun is much more pleasant to shoot.) So anyway, there's my reasoning for why longer barrels are better. For what it is worth, the 30" Parker remains my number 2 gun, but I have to admit that I've been using it and other doubles more often this year for various reasons, and are finding them to be a different kind of fun. My primary shotgun, is still a 97, I just switched to a Black Diamond Trap Model when I finally found one that didn't break the bank. Good luck, and happy shooting.

Well, that would be a Volcanic... But seriously, or well, as serious as such a topic can be, I am starting to feel that Mare's Leg Fever is just as dangerous as the Lightning Bug. Only the huge expense of customization and legal issues keep it at bay.

Ditto, Wow, talk about an old thread resurfacing. Just for kicks, I have more Model 3's than I did 4 years ago when I posted what I have. Here's the updated collection... From top to bottom... Cimarron Uberti American, 45 Colt. S&W New Model 3, .38-44 Cimarron Uberti American .44 Special S&W New Model 3, .44-40 Navy Arms Uberti Schofield, .45 Colt. S&W Third Model Schofield .45 S&W. S&W Model 3 DA, .44-40. Still no Laramie or Russian. Would love to find one of each in .45 Colt, then I'll have all the replicas in the same caliber. I'd love to have a New Model 3 in .32-20. But, S&W never made them, and none of the reproduction makers do either. Oh well. I also have this... Looks like a New Model 3, right? Well, it isn't. This is a Model 1891 in 38 S&W. It's about 3/4 the size of a NM3, and is only a 5 shooter. There's also this.... This sorta looks like the model 3 DA, but is only about half the size, and is a .32 S&W. They called it the Double Action Fourth Model. They really got a lot of mileage out of this basic design.

See if you can find an Ithaca Flues. They are not all that expensive, and they have ejectors. Or at least the random one I acquired turned out to have them.

How about one of these? This one is made by Chiappa, and is a .44 Magnum. They also make them in .44-40 and .45 Colt, and they also make a non takedown version. The loop on this one is aftermarket. The "D Lever" that they put on is not a D like the Rifleman or Stagecoach rifles. It's about half the size of this one. I had their "Rio Bravo" lever installed instead. Other than that, it's all factory stock. Very smooth right out of the box. Comparable to a real Winchester. You pay for it, but it's worth it. Oh yeah! Back to the Future Part III. Doc Brown uses a 66 rifle with a loop like the above and is all tricked out Steampunk style. Don't know why Stumps comment about a bolt action made me think of it, but it did.

I agree with almost all of this. Only the last sentence will I take issue with. Now, about 99% of the time, it is an accurate statement, but every once in a while, the overshot card can somehow wiggle its way out of the case, spilling shot all over the place. So, with MUCH reluctance, I started gluing them in place with Elmer's after crimping. Maybe I just need to crimp more, but, I wanna keep it minimal.

In all fairness, it's been over a year since I saw Rio Bravo, so I may be misremembering the details. Keeping track of all the Hollywood weirdness is... Very difficult. I never seen anything like these in an old Western though.

This touches on something that really annoys me. You have a character on a TV show, who in almost every way lives in a way that is contrary to their stated faith, and then it suddenly becomes important for some reason. If Bones cared about being a good Catholic, he would not have been sleeping with Christine before they got married. There is an episode of Big Bang theory where Bernadette makes a big deal about how she can't lie because she went to Catholic school. And yet, she's sleeping with Howard out of wedlock. There's the episode of Friends where Ross is all paranoid about his kid celebrating Hanukkah because he's Jewish, when the rest of the time he is portrayed as an atheist. There are many other examples across many TV shows and probably many movies. I find it to be very bad writing.

Not me. Compare Chuck's rifle to Mitchum's. The shape of the lever is very different. Also, Chuck didn't own the "his" rifle. It was a studio owned prop, and he didn't get to keep it when the show ended. I am more likely to believe that story that the Chuck's rifle is the same one John Wayne used in Stagecoach. I'm not 100% certain, but the resemblance is there. The documentary evidence is contradictory though.

Maybe 30 years ago, I was called. We were welcomed and it was explained to us it was one day or one trial. That's the rule in Massachusetts. Wait here till you are called in to see if you'll be seated on a jury. At noon they told us to go to lunch and be back by 1:15. At about 1:30, someone came out and said no juries being seated today. Thank you all for coming. Go home. You can not be called again for 5 years. I have duty again next Tuesday. But I am to call on Monday to see if I need to report or not. Jury selection is one of the few things Massachusetts does right.