H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

I recently came into possession of a Winchester 1200, 16 gauge shotgun. The person who had it didn't want it anymore, so he gave it to me. Now, this is my first and as of this writing, only 16 gauge. I figured I'd just buy a box or two of shells in case I ever wanted to shoot it. I never figured on tooling up to reload for it. BUT.... I found myself thinking that if I also had a SASS legal shotgun in 16, I'd get some Magtech brass and take it from there. Well... I have found three shotguns that have peaked my interest. A Winchester 97, a Fox Sterlingworth, and an Ithaca Flues Field Grade. Now, I am normally a 97 guy, I have a 12 Gauge Fox, and I know that they are good guns. But I am not familiar with the Ithaca. While it is the least expensive of the three, I just don't know if they are good guns or not. Can anyone offer any insight into the quality of these guns?

.32-20 ".32 Nagant" .38 Long Colt .44-40 .44 Special .44 Magnum .45 Colt And that's just main match calibers that I have pistols for. I suppose I could add 56-50 Spencer. I love 'em all!

And let's not forget aluminum and aluminium. Although, those 2 DO reflect the different pronunciations. But I have never been able to figure out why labratory is not considered legitimate.

Nice video. Decent looking gun. Clearly a copy of the 94, and no stupid safeties. Still angle eject though, but... Looks like better version than the Winchester. I may consider this. Thanks for sharing.

This has been a fascinating discussion. Thank you to everyone for the information. I have to admit that after reading all the info here, and the article on Starline's website about it, that I am a little hesitant to look into this caliber. That might be silly, but I have to be honest. The only reason that I considered it to begin with was that of all the calibers one can get an 1881 Marlin in other than .45-70, this was the only one that seems to still be around and popular. I'd still prefer a .45-70, but they seem to be harder to find for some reason. (And more expensive.) But, since I am in no hurry, I'll just bide my time, work up my extra funds, and then pull the trigger when the time is right.

I originally obtained one just cuz I thought they looked cool and wanted to have one. The first one I got was the Mark IV .38. Then I got the Mark VI. Sadly, like most here in the US, it was "shaved" for .45 ACP. You can safely download the round for use, but it's a pain to have to do so. I liked it so much, I got a second one to shoot the pain in Wild Bunch matches. Then SASS created rules for WB and it became a 1911 only game. But I didn't care, it was still a cool pair of guns. A few years later, I found a Mark V with the long barrel. Anyway, I'd like to get at least 1 more Mark V in the more traditional short barrel configuration, and preferably still in the original .455 Webley caliber. Time will tell if and when I can do so.

Well, the Webley WAS "The Peacemaker of the British Empire." They are cool guns. I've got 4 of them. Two Mark VI, one Mark V and a Mark IV .38. My nephew also has an unshaved Mark VI. Got letters for all of them

Frontier Land?

There was also a .38-56 that the Colt Lightning was chambered for. From what I have read, it is not the same as .38-55 the way .45-85 was the same as .45-70 just with a much lighter bullet.

I have read that .444 Marlin brass will chamber in a .410 shotgun. Perhaps a shot capsule backed by a charge of Trailboss would have mild recall.... Trailboss... Another unobtainium...

Can you own a .455 Webley?

I realize that "fun" is a relative term, and it doesn't necessarily mean best or fastest. I myself have 3 single shots, a K Mart 251 20 gauge made by CBC. It's a fairly "generic" gun and there is nothing special about it. I also have a pair of 12 gauges. One is a Remington Rolling Block and the other is a WW Greener made on a Martini rifle action. Of the three, I'd say the Greener is the "fastest" and before I got the roller, I'd've said it was my "funnest" one, but there is just something oddly enjoyable about shooting a Rolling Block shotgun. Won't win any speed contests with it, but it is fun to shoot every once in a while. So what are some other opinions on what makes for a fun single shot shotgun?

It comes with a 16.5" barrel, and based on a 73 I have with a barrel of that length, cutting the shoulder part off the pistol grip should still be over 26" total. As far as "why" is concerned, just for the sheer unadulterated fun of it.

From what I read here on the wire, .38-55 seems to be a fairly popular caliber. I'd like to ask a few questions about it. 1. Is the .38-55 that was chambered in the Winchester 94, the same .38-55 that was chambered in the Marlin 1881? 2. How difficult is it to get brass? 3. Is commercial ammo available? 4. Is it true that if all else fails, you can create .38-55 brass simply by running .30-30 through a full length sizing die? Thank you to those in the know for the answers. Reasons why I am asking these questions: I am considering getting a Marlin 1881. I wanted one in .45-70, but they seem to be hard to find/super expensive, or both. Of the other calibers that I have seen listed for this rifle, .38-55 seems to be the one would be the easiest to tool up to reload for, and they seem to be available in this caliber for far more reasonable prices that some others.

Does anyone know of the the Cimarrons with a long barrel have fixed or screw in chokes?

Maybe not. There are loads for the round, even with a 405 grain bullet, that have very little recoil. If you can find Trailboss...

Well, I believe I have found a way to actually create a Mare's Leg type gun in .45-70. Start with one of these from Taylors... https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/1886-tc86-takedown-16-5-45-70-lc1-220100.html Replace the tachtical sights with more traditional ones, get a second stock and cut the shoulder off pistol grip, being sure to stay over 26" inches overall, and presto! I "Mare's Leg" in .45-70. It would serve no practical purpose, but would be a heck of a lot of fun to own and shoot every once in a while.

How long is the barrel?

I have never sold anything, but over the years, I have bought a few things on Gunbroker. The caveat is to know what your personal willing to pay price is, and stick to it. Bargains? Hard to find, but not impossible. "Good prices?" More often than you would think. Overpriced to the point of insanity? Absolutely! Especially if you look at some of the buy it now prices. The other online site I have used is gunsinternational.com. I've found some nice stuff there. That's a non auction site, so you know what is being asked.

Well, Crazy Gun Barney got it.

My 1888 vintage Winchester has a 30" bbl, and I love it. I am unusual in that I prefer long barrels on my shotguns. I also have a Terminator style one with an 18.5" bbl on it, and I did get a standard shoulderstock to supplement the pistol grip one it came with. But I prefer the longer tube. I wish the Chiappa's with long barrels had a fixed choke instead of screw ins. Maybe the ones from Cimarron will have that configuration...

Since cap & ball revolvers are not "firearms" ship them as they were made. Since conversion cylinders are "parts" ship them separately as such. That being said, check with the shipper on the pistols.

Mr. Johnson makes a valid point that had no occurred to me. Consider the following... 1. My father was trap shooter. I inherited literally thousands of AAs from him. 2. For CAS loads, I primarily shoot Magtech all brass, or AA's trimmed to 2-1/2" since some of my older cowboy shotguns have short chambers. 3. I do occasionally load some black powder shells. Those three items, and especially the first one, probably contribute greatly to my tendency to think of shotgun reloading as normal.

Here is an interesting observation. While almost all of us reload our pistol and rifle ammo, relatively few of us reload our shotgun ammo. I base this on two observations. 1. At every shoot go to, almost no one keeps their empty shotshells to reload them. They wind up being discarded. I even have to tell the brass pickers that I want mine back, when I'm not shooting all brass ones. 2. Every time something other than 12 gauge comes up, people talk about how hard it is to find ammo in that gauge, something that is not as much of a problem if you roll your own. I would have figured that for something like 28 gauge, which I admit to having never even heard of until this thread, would be almost universally a handloading endeavor. Which brings up two questions.... 1. Why is shotgun reloading so uncommon in our game? 2. Does Magtech make all brass cases in this oddball gauges?

Apparently, Winchester is introducing a new lever action .22 rifle in the $400 price range. https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/ranger/ranger.html It certainly *looks* a lot like the old 9422, but that designation is not used, nor is there any reference to that model on the website. It's got an aluminum frame. I assume it's as much a cost cutting measure as anything. I am not sure of what to think about it. I think it's great that they are coming out with such a gun, but the aluminum frame gives me pause. And I am no fan of the front sight, but I didn't "like" them on the old 9422 either, but learned to live with them. I hope it is a success. Would I buy one? Tough question. I've already got a a pair of 9422's, and an Uberti 66 .22, (and a Colt Lightning) so I don't know if I really have a use for one. I'd not out an out refuse one. I guess I'd have to hold one in my hands and get a feel for it.