[50-70 Brass at Starline]

Hmm....    If only I had a gun chambered for it!


Question:  For .45-70, we know that there are "trapdoor safe" smokeless loads.   Do such things exist for .50-70, or is it a black powder only cartridge?   I honestly don't know.   

For the record, for a trapdoor, I'd want one of the later ones (Model 1870 or 1871, I forget exactly) that were made from the ground up as trapdoors, not conversions.   Or a Remington Rolling Block.   If it had to be BP only, so be it, but I am curious. 

[How many clicks on a Colt Bisley?]

23 minutes ago, Red River Rudy, SASS #8490 LIFE said:

This is a video of my Bisley.  Four distinct clicks with internal movement.

 

VERY interesting.

Thanks for posting.

[Taylor's & Company 1873 TC73 9mm - Apparently SASS legal]

Here in Massachusetts, the 10 round limit is for detachable magazines.

Unless it's changed recently.   Which is possible.   Heck, the Remington 1100 is illegal here now.

[50-70 in a 50-90 rolling block?]

1 hour ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

Maybe you should recheck your Wikipedia…

 

What are you talking about?   The Wiki article clearly says .543" and...   Wait..

D'OH!!!!!

There is a spot in my monitor that was perfectly positioned over the 1 in .512 that made it look like .543.   Never mind.

I gotta go wipe down my screen...

grumble grumble...

[50-70 in a 50-90 rolling block?]

1 hour ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

I’m pretty sure the .50-70 and .50-90 use the same bullet diameter. 

Not according to Wikipedia.  LOL

 

 

[50-70 in a 50-90 rolling block?]

I believe the .50-70 used a .515" bullet.   The .50-90 used a .543" bullet.

I think that might explain why it wouldn't work.

Unlike the ,.45-70 and .45-90 that both used a .458" bullet.

Heh, in modern parlance, the .50-70 would be a .52 caliber round, and the .50-90 would probably be classed as a .55.

[How many clicks on a Colt Bisley?]

This is proving to be fascinating.   Thank you to everyone for all of the information.

I believe I am starting to understand things a little better.

On a standard SAA, there are clicks 1 2 3 and 4.   Click 4 is technically 4 and 5 happening at the same time.

I am getting the impression that on the Bisley, clicks 3, 4 and 5 are all happening at the same time.  That actually makes sense as I watch what happens as the pistols are cocked.   I wonder if it is in any way related to the fact that the Bisley trigger is much farther back in the trigger guard than the standard SAA is.  They also tend to have a much lighter trigger pull with less travel.   This lighter trigger seems to be the case in the half a dozen or so that I have handled over the years in addition to the pair I own.

[How many clicks on a Colt Bisley?]

Okay, let's try this...
 

On a standard SAA, there is a click between the half cock and the full cock clicks.

On both this and my nickel Bisley, there's just nothing there.   SAA 4 clicks.  Bisley 3 clicks.  I find it hard to believe that 2 of these would wear away entirely the exact same click.   Also with click 3 on the SAA there is trigger movement.  Between half cock and full cock, where click 3 would be on the Bisley, there is no trigger movement.

There's just something "different."   Or so it seems to me.   

[A SASS Member's S&W Performance Center Schofield Collection]

Nice article.

I am not the collector Cholla refers too, but a couple of years ago, I was lucky enough to find one of these pistols to add to my collection.   They are very well made, and while not as "accurate" as the Italian reproductions, I think they are of superior build quality.  (I also have an Uberti to compare it to.)

Perhaps I'll post some pics this evening when I get home from work.

 

[Martini Pistol?]

Calling any experts on firearms made on the old Martini action.

A few years ago, I came across an auction on Gunbroker of a pair of "Dueling Pistols" in .455 Webley that were built on the Martini-Henry action.   The seller did not know if they were made is pistols, or were converted rifles, so I passed on them.

I have never seen anything like them ever again.   The closest I can say I have seen is a Kyber Pass Martini pistol built from the ground up in .303 British.  Needless to say, I did not even think about purchasing that!

But, I am curious.   Were any pistols, target, dueling, whatever, actually made on that action in pistol caliber cartridges?   If they were, I'd assume they are quite rare.  Any information would be appreciated.

[How many clicks on a Colt Bisley?]

Well...    Maybe this will help.... 

 

 

The trigger clearly moves on all three clicks.

 

[Taylor's & Company 1873 TC73 9mm - Apparently SASS legal]

1 minute ago, Wild Eagle said:

Or even better, one in 45-70.  Now that's a hog gun.

Well, there is this...

 

https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/1886-tc86-takedown-16-5-45-70-lc1-220100.html

All you gotta do is replace the rail with buckhorn sights and that weird front one with a regular one, and get a smooth cap for the threads, and there you go.

That's what I did.  (And other stuff that I am not yet ready to divulge.)

 

[How many clicks on a Colt Bisley?]

5 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Sometimes the trigger hitting the full cock notch happens after the bolt head has dropped into the cylinder notch, in which case there are 5 clicks.

Yeah, I know how Click 4 on an SAA is sorta 2 for 1, and if the timing isn't right, it'll sound like 5 clicks.   

In fact, one on of the Bisleys, The 3rd, full cock click, you can hear 2 clicks at almost the same time that are not there on the other one, so I am assuming that the same as Click 4, 2 for 1 full cock click as on an SAA.

But it's just plain weird.   3 is full cock, 2 is half, and 1 is the safety notch.   Absolutley 3 clicks, not a 4th in sight.

Or if you prefer, there is no click between half cock and full cock.

With my SAA's, all 4 are clearly discernable.

[How many clicks on a Colt Bisley?]

C-O-L-T.

We've heard it, we've said it, we've bemoaned the fact that some of the clones don't have 4 clicks as you cock them like a real Colt does.

But as I was checking something on my Bisley's this morning, I found my self saying, "Waitiasec...  There's only 2 clicks!"

Perplexed, I very carefully and slowly tried cocking both of them.   Click 1, the so called "safety notch" is there on both of them, it's just really quiet, and you don't pull the hammer back as far as you do on a regular SAA to engage it.

Click 2 is half cock, and click 3 is full cock.   In other words, three clicks.   Not four, three.   Now, I've never taken these guns apart, or any of my standard SAAs for that matter, but I aways guessed that the only difference was the shape of the grip and hammer.  But now, apparently, I am starting to guess that there are some internal differences as well.   What they would be, I do no know, but it seems that they were there.

And, I don't think that one of the clicks is just worn away with age.   Both pistols are very tight, have perfect timing and lock up properly.   The odds of them both wearing away the same click just seems improbable to me.

So...    To anyone else with a real Colt Bisley, three or four clicks?  To any gunsmiths who might know, are they internally very different?

 

Curiosity needs to be satisfied.

[.32-20 Obsession]

3 hours ago, Timothy said:

Who do you suppose the big heavy expensive saa chambered in 32wcf was marketed to in the 1880s primarily?

More than likely people who had rifles in the caliber.  I'd guess that they were primarily used for varmint control and maybe small to medium game hunting.  Back in the day, .32-20 was considered suitable for deer, for example.  

I doubt it was many people's primary defensive caliber, but I'd be surprised if at least a few people didn't use it for that.  The caliber had a reputation for excellent accuracy, so perhaps some target shooters as well.

I've seen for sale, and own 2, .32-20 Bisleys, which was a target gun, for example.

[Who can short stroke?]

Who can short stroke?
We can short stroke.
If you dare go short stroke
We will short stroke
You.

 

[.32-20 Obsession]

3 minutes ago, Cotton Eye Joe said:

I have a Marlin 1894 and 1889 in 32-20. Those are my only ones currently. I'll hopefully find an 1888 as well, but odds are against me.

 

A single shot 32-20 that comes to mind is a C. Sharps made 1885 Low Wall rifle. That'd be a fine rifle, though potentially a tad limited in power at range. 

 

A Uberti 1873 or 1866 would have to be the easiest rifles to find. One thing I'd like confirmation on is that Uberti uses the same magtube for 357mag and 32-20. I recall reading that it can cause hang-ups, but again, I'd want confirmation from someone who owns one. Could be completely unfounded!

 

There are a couple of 1888's on Gunbroker right now, for reasonable prices at the moment.   In fact, if I didn't already have one, I'd be going for one of them.  

I will confirm that the magazine tube on the Uberti 66 looks to be the same size as the ones on the .44's and .45's.   Haven't loaded it up yet to see how it works.

[.32-20 Obsession]

Well, maybe obsession is the wrong word, but I really like the .32-20 caliber, and would like to increase examples of it in my collection.  

Here's what I have.

Pistols  (SASS Type)

Colt SAA 1st Gen Antique
Colt SAA 3rd Gen

Colt Bisley x2.

 

Pistols  (Non-SASS type)

S&W M&P

 

Going forward, I think the most logical things to obtain would be a non antique 1st Gen SAA, and a 2nd Gen SAA.   If I can ever find one that's legal for sale in Massachusetts, that scaled down SAA clone marketed by Cimarron and other that comes with dual .32-20 and .32 H&R Magnum cylinders is attractive.  I suppose a generic SAA clone in the caliber is also an option, especially if it's not very expensive.   But finding one in Massachusetts would be hard.    I think that if I can find a Colt 1878 in the caliber, I'd be hard pressed to pass on it.    I know there have been more than a few DA revolvers made for the caliber by Colt, S&W and others, but that's more peripheral interest.   I'm more interested in stuff I can use for our game, or at least peripheral to it.

I'm not really interested in the Ruger.   Well made guns, but not of personal interest.   I assume they offer it in .32-20, but don't know.   Can anyone confirm?

I know that S&W never chambered the Model 3 for the caliber, and in fact, as far as I know, only Colt did anything in pistols with it back in the day.   As far as modern made guns go, when I first got into CAS, I believe it was Taylors who was marketing a 58 Remington "converted" to the caliber, but I never actually saw one anyplace other than on their website.   Anybody ever see/obtain one of these?   Or perhaps any other "conversions?"

Now, for rifles, it's far more interesting.    I don't yet have any single shot rifles in the caliber, but I am interested in one of the BSA rifles that started out as a .310 Cadet rifle that has been rechambered to .32-20.   They are not hard to find, and fairly inexpensive.   Also the Remington Rolling Block would be on my list.   But I don't know if anything else was chambered for it, or if any single action pistols were.  Anybody know?

For SASS type rifles...
Winchester 73
Colt Lighting
Winchester 92

Uberti 66

Marlin 1888

I guess the most obvious "gap" here would be a Marlin 94.   Don't know if anything else was ever made, or if any replicas in a caliber that originals, like the 66, didn't have are out there.

Something else I'd like to find is a short barrel Winchester 92, but dang, those are expensive!   I did see one at auction a couple of years ago, but I lost out when it got too expensive for my wallet.  Not seen another one since.  

Now, granted, I am mostly a .45 Shooter, but for some reason, I find breaking out the .32-20 now and again to be "fun" for some reason.   Maybe it's cuz the guns I have for are all wicked cool.   I don't know.   

Okay, with all of that in mind, who else finds .32-20 to be strangely addictive?   What else might be out there to add to the collection that I am unaware of.

An inquiring mind who's currently loading up truckload of brass for the caliber wants to know.

[Best forms of payment]

If they don't charge a fee for the credit card, I'll use that.  

If they do, I'll get a bank check/money order.  This also gives me a receipt from the bank, which I like having.

Sometimes I'll do a personal check if they say they will take one,   But I usually don't because of the wait for it to clear.

 

Obviously, all purchases.   I've not sold anything.

[Best forms of payment]

F&F?

[Henry 1860 damaging snap cap?]

I have a large collection of that brand of snap caps, including .44-40's that I run in my Uberti Henry, Uberti 66, AWA Lightning, Colt Lightning, and Uberti 73.

Never had any trouble in any of those guns, or with the caps in different calibers in others.   Either I am lucky, or I think there may be something "off" with your Henry's extractor, but that it does not bother brass, just the weaker aluminum of the caps.

[A bad day at the range.]

1 hour ago, Texas Maverick said:

take it back to the gunsmith that just charged you a thousand dollars to fix. He should stand behind his work.

 

TM

Yeah, and he will.  I'll give him a call and explain what's happening.

[A bad day at the range.]

Found a box of factory Short Colts.   Same problem as the Longs.   So, it's gotta be some sort of problem with the action.

In general, I DO take backups with me to big shoots, but not locals.

 

Oh well.

[A bad day at the range.]

5 hours ago, watab kid said:

sorry this did not go well , i didnt mean to be rude in my initial post i can sympathiize as ive on more than one occasion gone to a shoot 2with untested guns right out of the box [so to speak] ive done it so i should not have said it , but in my elder years ive learned better - funny thing of that is i still do those things sometimes just the same so dont feel too bad , learn from the experience and move on , its all fun - even the bad days , trust me on this  life is short gotta enjoy every bit of it 

 

Never thought you were rude.   To be honest, I should have brought along another, proven, gun in case their were any problems with the Marlin.   I guess I just figured that after a hefty gunsmith bill from a guy who has done complicated and excellent work for me before that there would not be any issues.||

Oh, I tried the Short Colts.   An empty case drops right in to the chamber, but my reloads would not.  I have a feeling that loading those heeled bullets doesn't leave as much room for error.   I'll have to start from scratch there.  If I can at least get the shorts to chamber, but they have the same problem with cycling, that'll give me a better clue as to what needs to be fixed.

I suppose I should also experiment with some rimfire cartridges that I have.

[A bad day at the range.]

42 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

A hearty GRUMP for ya H.K.