Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
-
Posts
11,578 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
5
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
-
-
No ejector on the toggle rifles (other than the top surface of the carrier). That top hook is the extractor.
OP - you need to CLEARLY explain the remaining difficulty. You keep saying this is a "loading" problem, which to me means you can't easily load rounds through the loading gate into the mag tube.
Then some folks are treating this like a levering/chambering problem. The round on the carrier not feeding well into the chamber and letting the lever close completely.
Then OTHER folks are discussing an extraction and ejection problem. Getting the fired brass out of the chamber and ejected cleanly.
Tell us specifically which of these you are bothered by. Before this post turns into 14 pages of guesses, and perhaps none help you solve the problem.
good luck, GJ
-
3
-
4
-
-
He did mention caliber - .38 special ammo. In 7th post.
Cartridge length not making for difficulty loading rounds into the gun. Either loading gate, carrier constriction or something hanging up in mag tube.
good luck, GJ
-
1
-
-
9 hours ago, Dred Bob said:
I just need to figure out the loading issue. I don't want to force the cartridges. It could definitely be a result of the narrower carrier channel. Either I file some more or maybe try some shorter .38 test rounds.
The loading of cartridges shoves rounds through through the loading gate, into the channel of the carrier, then into the mag tube. And when levering the action, of course, the round to be fed to the chamber has to pop rearward into the channel then be pushed forward into the chamber by the bolt after the carrier rises. So, you definitely have to have sufficient clearance in the channel for a round to slide without binding or being tight. Can you slide rounds easily fore and back with the carrier out of the gun, held in your hands? If not, more filing will be needed to allow the rounds to travel freely.
How about explaining if EVERY cartridge you load is sticking, or just the first or just the last. Very hard to load last cartridge - could be an over-length magazine tube spring (common from factory). If it's every cartridge - may be a narrow spot in the carrier or the frame. But since this problem sounds like it has started only with the new carrier, check that closely. Take a sharpie pen and color the inside of the block. Load some cartridges, unload them, then take block out and examine for marks in the fresh coating.
Look for rub marks on the inside of the carrier channel and on the receiver (frame) where the mag tube meets the receiver. Look for a magazine follower that sticks either in the frame or the mag tube.
Also check that the loading gate can be pushed open easily as you shove cartridges in. Uberti makes the spring arm of the loading gate very strong. A bent loading gate or too much arch on the spring arm can catch on the lifter arm or even toggle links.
Having sticky LOADING of the magazine is an uncommon problem with a 73.
And short rounds will not fix a hard magazine loading issue. And will, if short enough, cause levering rounds into the chamber to jam up with one and part of another round in the carrier.
All of this tells me the gun needs to go back to LongHunter for some remedial work. Having to do a lot of adjustment to the carrier's channel is not what is usually needed with a carrier replacement.
good luck, GJ
-
2
-
-
Extractor probably is weak and needs to be replaced. And the lever and lifter springs, if still the factory originals, ought to be replaced. Tighten the lifter spring side until the carrier is held even with bottom of frame. Problems with loading the magazine are "vertical alignment of carrier" problems.
Some new carriers need the rear of the bolt travel channel filed a little to make a conical entry (centering relief) to better let the bolt find it's way forward.
good luck, GJ
-
4
-
-
1 hour ago, Macon Due said:
Another possibility is Win. WST.
Already proven to be a good dual purpose powder, just not every pistol cartridge has some published data from Hodgdon. Like .45 Colt, but I run WST in the Colt all the time.
good luck, GJ
-
6 minutes ago, Krazy Kajun said:
45 Colt annealing.....does it really help that much?
Helps quite a bit - but not as much as blowing out .44-40 cases.
As does a heavy powder charge and a heavy bullet. Both of which are bad for high speed gallery shooting.
The discontinued Redding dual ring sizer die also helps quite a bit, and is the easiest to get started doing!
good luck, GJ
-
3
-
-
Ditto that. Had to clear an annular split .38 spl case BROKEN AT THE CANNELURE from a 73 in a major match that cost wife-at-time a buckle. Now I carry case extractors.
may it never happen to you! GJ
-
Think they also work in a Lyman turret press (Spar-T)
-
1
-
1
-
-
Yes, shotgun primers are made with an outer cup (the battery cup) that is almost always steel. And some even have the inner cup (containing the primer) made of steel too. I put shotgun primers directly in trash.
Unless you are running some European cartridges, the cartridge primers should all be brass.
good luck, GJ
-
1
-
-
I sell both CARTRIDGE primers and brass to metal recycler. They will usually give you a scrap brass price - often close to $2 a pound. Some will kick the primers down to a "dirty brass" category at $0.30 or so. Shop around.
Scrap metal dealers are close cousins to used car lots - be prepared to walk.
good luck, GJ
-
2
-
2
-
-
Because I have had deeply cannelured cases (including the same Winchester 45 Colts) split around the case and leave the ring stuck in a chamber, I relegate these cases to being turned into Cowboy .45 Specials. These that you pictured look to me like a "stab" tool or a roller-cutter tool was used to indent the case, rather than using a straight-knurl tool like most cannelures are applied. They seem to be very liable to fracture on the groove.
Cannelures have fallen out of favor in the 21st century. Used to be very popular in some factories' .38 special loads, where the position of the groove indicated the type of load. I've seen some factory loads that had 2 cannelures at different heights on the case. Neither of which were at the base of the bullet.
I don't reload any case now with a deep cannelure on them. A few .45 auto cases with very shallow cannelures I continue to shoot (like a big batch of Federal military production date stamped from 2006 and 2007).
good luck, GJ
-
1
-
-
Yes, (PP might work dual purposes),
and yes, (no Clay Dot cartridge data has appeared),
to all those.
And I was a little surprised when Hodgdon made the GRAND, miraculous discovery that TiteGroup could also be a fine shotgun powder about 12 months ago.
Most of us cowboys had known that for a couple of years.
good luck, GJ
-
1
-
-
I've seen no cartridge data for Perfect Pattern YET. In theory it would be suitable. But I know of no company willing to perform pressure testing and other safety tests on cartridges.
I've seen tons of data for cartridges with TiteGroup powder, which is also very available. Make it easy on yourself and get some TG for now, and perhaps someone else will test out PP. (Hint, that is something very similar to what I'm doing right now)
good luck, GJ.
-
2
-
-
35 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:
Each target hit with an incorrect firearm – either intentionally or by mistake.
And the gun being fired when this happened was the revolver. And the instructions allowed any makeup shots on a missed revolver target until the shooter either ran out of that ammo, or started firing on the dump target.
So, you may think the shooter had a miss, but that is not true with a makeup style of scenario, where until the ammo is expended, the shooter can reverse that miss with a subsequent hit.
good luck, GJ
.
-
4
-
1
-
-
Any powder that sends a slug down range will be GOOD ENOUGH for a SASS main match. I've even shot Elephant and Kik. Which is close to using mule dung.
Schuetzen will be much better.
good luck, GJ
-
3
-
-
It will have an auto safety - that needs to be modified to be a manual safety.
It's a heavy gun. Lift weights regularly. Hinge surfaces need to be regreased after every cleaning.
good luck, GJ
-
1
-
2
-
-
If you need serious work (like action retiming or barrel work), I'd suggest NuLine Guns in Rhineland, MO
I'm not familiar with gunsmiths in Alaska. GJ
-
1
-
-
125 grains with 3 grains of Clays or Clay Dot makes a right fine .38 special cowboy load.
good luck, GJ
-
4
-
-
Thanks Too Tall.!
Does look like the "Second Entry" heading needs to be raised up one line higher so the "Second" alias follows the "Second Entry" heading.
And, the day of the Wild Bunch match is Tuesday, correct? The Entry Fee section seems to have it wrong --- as Wednesday.
good luck, GJ
-
Hmmm, 14 thousandths of slack between which ever lug is tightest and the locking bar. Not real bad. Would not take much tapping of the lug(s) to bring that back down to about 0.005"
My Baikal will close nicely with a 0.008" feeler gauge blade placed on the water table right where the standing breech of the action meets the watertable. Feels like I still have a lot of life in that gun. Converting that, that is 0.20 mm.
good luck, GJ
-
Well, you can't see the sliding lock fitting into the lugs when action is closed.
You could disassemble the receiver enough to get the sliding lock block out, then push block in by hand. But that is lots of work.
I'd smoke or marker color the lug engagement surfaces, then open and close the action several times. You should see drag marks where the bar touches the lugs. Spots where the lugs DO NOT rub off their color are not making contact. Gentle tapping on the lug to close up the lugs' slots can usually get the lockup tighter. But, if the action is not auto-opening when you fire it, I'd leave it alone. A little up and down play in the action won't hurt much of anything
good luck, GJ
-
If the rim cut in the chamber has been ground out completely, and even worse, if the extractors have the same coning done, yes, the gun has lost it's headspace location! Shotguns headspace on the front surface of the shell rim being against the ledge in the chamber. Shells vary a little in outside rim diameter, and if the headspace ledge is cut out into a tapered cone, they try to stop when the OD of the rim reaches a tight spot in the tapered wall. So each hull, each brand, tries to stop at a different distance from the firing pins. And at some point, you get failures of the firing pins to set off primers!
Leave the extractor alone when "coning" the breech. Leave at least some of the headspace ledge in the barrel - I never cut out more than half of the ledge depth.
good luck, GJ
-
2
-
-
20 minutes ago, Make do said:
the play is up and down.
Mostly locking lug / sliding lock bar fit.
-
Play (if any) between the barrel breech and the vertical face of the action (where firing pins are located) is the slop which can make a gun quit firing. That play adds to head space, and eventually the firing pins cannot hit the primers enough to fire the shells. This is due to wear between the hinge at the front of the receiver, and the socket for the hinge in the barrel underlug.. Usually fixed by fitting an oversize hinge pin (they are all replaceable). This loosening of the hinge also sometimes shows up as a side-to-side flop of the barrels.
Play in the lock down of the barrels - yes, that's mainly from the sliding action lock no longer snugly fitting the slots in the underbarrel lugs. Often fixed by either replacing the sliding lock bar or tightening the lug gap(s) in the underbarrel lug(s). Too much play here means recoil can cause the action to unlock without the top lever being worked.
Lots of old and cheaply made guns develop play in the action. Some need to be fixed to prevent failures.
good luck, GJ
-
1
-
Keeping notes ?
in SASS Wire
Posted
I keep a spreadsheet (free one - no more Excel prices for me) with all my loads, both shot for groups in the past, and planned to load. Gives me things to do when I run out of doing real work at the range or the house.
And another spreadsheet with details on each firearm. Has come in handy many times.
good luck, GJ