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Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

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Posts posted by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

  1. Cleaning guns is SO dependent upon what your GUN needs for it to be able to run well. We can make generalizations in the gun types and what they need. But listen and feel your guns and you will develop a cleaning schedule that works for you.


    Here's some important points I've learned.


    * Some smokeless powders burn more cleanly and require less cleaning.

    * Plastic-Coated lead slugs require less cleaning than lubed slugs

    * Once you get your loads tuned, if you HAVE to clean a rifle or pistol barrel to keep it running or maintain it's accuracy, there is something wrong with the load! You should NOT be leading or fouling the barrel of a smokeless gun with cowboy loads!

    * Some gun actions are tighter and more prone to jamming and malfunctioning if they get dirty.

    * Bottleneck cartridges keep rifle actions very clean. 38 specials let actions get dirty a little faster and .45 Colt guns get fouling in the action very fast.

    * Cartridge selection makes little difference to revolver actions - they all get dirty.

    * SxS shotguns shuck fired shells much better with clean and dry chambers

    * Pump shotguns need action cleaning much more than they need chamber or barrel cleaning

    * Any tube magazine needs to be cleaned and dry lubed at least once a year or more often in rainy weather and dusty conditions


    So what have my guns told me?


    Pistols - clean when they start feeling a little sticky or draggy (maybe every 10 matches)

    Rifle - since I shoot .45 Colt, clean it (especially lifter, bolt, extractor) when sticky - about every other match

    SxS shotgun - clean chambers every match

    Pump shotgun - clean action every match or two


    Long range rifles - clean after every match (and practice session) - because precision is very important


    None of the cleaning above requires more than a "field" disassembly"


    All the guns get thorough cleaning about once a year, well before a major match.




    more guns are damaged by "cleaning" than have ever been harmed by lack thereof.


    Lack of cleaning doesn't damage/harm guns. But it sure can damage your scoresheet. Just sticking one round in a magazine or a chamber often kills a match. One sticky hull in a shotgun. One extra "go-around" or "cylinder boost" on a revolver can do the same - For top competitors.


    Now, if you can't clean using field disassembly any of your cowboy guns without doing damage (such that it is detectable at cowboy distances) - there is something wrong with your abilities to work with firearms!


    Good luck, GJ



    It also has the dump station. Its at the entrance of the RV park. This is where you can get water. I'd ask about it being Potable.


    That dump station in the main RV park has a big sign on the water spigot at the dump station - NON-potable. Has had the last 4 years. (Now, have a few folks used it in their campers? Well...)


    The better supply is to make a friend in the full-hookup area and fill your rig there. (Take along a clean hose and a Y connector) Then go park it.


    Good luck, GJ


    Downloading is the problem and not the powder.


    Older technology powders are often ALSO a problem. Some of the newer technology with modern deterrents and coatings are much less temperature sensitive, even with light loads.


    But, that said, powder manufacturers do not have a big market for real light loading capability. Smokeless powders are designed to run WELL close to their max pressure levels, not the minimums you find in manuals, and certainly not the "below mins" you find in many cowboy's gun belts!


    It is true that very light loading makes consistent loads hard to build at any temperature. And with some powders, it becomes REAL hard at the cold temperature range!


    So, since the OP has asked what the temperature effects are going to be and how to prevent weak loads in cold weather, this thread has been covering all the ways to do that. Bumping the powder level up is certainly a VERY effective way to get to happy ground. But, there are other tricks too.


    Good luck, GJ

  4. The Cast Boolits web site has several fellows who sell assembled PID controllers. Were I interested in more precise temperature control than what the RCBS pot provides, I'd probably install one of those. But I've not had that much need for control. <_<


    If you want to scratch build, here's a starter post:




    As shown in that post, the PID controller itself is usually just a purchase from Auber Instruments or similar vendor.


    Otherwise, on the Cast Boolits site, search for PID.


    Good luck, GJ

  5. That's a sturdy looking table; congrats!


    Around here, we use about 30" square or larger. A lot of times, we use 4 feet long (2 feet wide) folding tables, with a carpet top.


    As tall as you have built that, I would encourage stabilizer feet that run out to both sides and to the down-range side of the table. It will be pretty easy to knock that table over on any sort of grassy or rough ground with the height being larger than the width and depth. Or some sort of anchor system, which then makes setup and take-down slower. Also, make sure you use something on the table top to keep guns from bouncing off.


    Good luck, GJ

  6. RCBS stuff is usually under guarantee. If you give them a call they may replace it free.


    Not the motors on vibratory cleaners, unfortunately. They source them out of China and know how fast they will go out.


    Good luck, GJ

  7. If you don't value the benefits of an SKB, then you don't. It's a personal preference.


    But the fastest cowboy shooters like the light weight, reliable function, the long life, of an SKB. For them, the price is worth it.


    Don't know anyone shooting SKB just for "glam" - they shoot them for performance!


    or am I missing something


    Possibly. :lol: Only your shot timer and score sheet can tell you for sure.


    Good luck, GJ

  8. For a .38 special loading for Cowboy, I'd recommend the Accurate mold # 36-125D (with a crimp groove) or 36-125-B (without a crimp groove). Truncated cone, long enough to feed well in toggle link rifles. Those will of course make you a 125 grain slug - one of the most common and useful weights for 38 spl.


    See them at:




    You can get Tom to make one of those molds in 2-3 weeks, the molds even in Aluminum will last for a long time, you get to specify the exact diameter of the mold, and he makes them in 4 cavity like you asked for.


    The mold with no crimp groove lets you crimp to a variety of cartridge Overall Lengths, letting you fine tune how your ammo will best make the rifle run very smooth.


    Good luck, GJ

  9. Some powders are noted to be pretty "cold weak." Clays is among them.


    Titegroup is advertised as being temperature insensitive. Like you, WC, I have not found that to be true at our low pressure cowboy loads and freezing weather.


    Mag primers help.


    One of the best uses of a small cooler - place your ammo and a couple of hand warmer packets in them. Start the hand warmers 30 minutes before match,. By the time you are ready to shoot, ammo will work MUCH better.


    A few powders become weaker at hot temperatures. I don't recall which ones do that. None of our common pistol/shotgun powders, fortunately.


    Testing of your loads should always be done by taking a few rounds "off the ice" from an ice chest, if you do load development in nice weather.


    Good luck, GJ


    GJ, I hope that the them you are talking about shooting isn't the folks. ;)


    Hard keeping "return customers" if'n you shoot some of them. :lol::ph34r::wacko:

    (Even if it was only splash back off of knockdowns)

  11. 3/4 ounce advantages - lower shot cost (the biggest part of the cost in shotshells); less recoil.

    Disadvantages - missed shots due to poor patterns.


    I've made 3/4 and 7/8 ounce loads for folks before, even shot some of them. I find it hard to get a 3/4 ounce load to pattern nicely. Most 12 gauge wads just are not designed for 3/4 ounce loads. Sure, you can make the 3/4 ounce load have a very light recoil. But, I and other person I used to load for would leave a knockdown occasionally even using the special 3/4 ounce gray wad from Claybusters. (CB0175-12)



    If you look at the 1150 FPS 3/4 ounce load with Clays and Cheddite primer in a Rem STS case, that was a very nice light load. Still had holes though.


    So, I am back to shooting 1 ounce loads again. I like the patterns they give me on thrown birds and soda cans, and can handle the recoil of 1 ounce at 1100 FPS without slowing my shotgun speed. And no knockdown stands up to a center hit from that load.


    Good luck, GJ


    When you look in the chamber you can see where the case necks down and then there is a ring about maybe less than 3 /32" wide right at the riffling


    You have found the problem (most likely). Now to find a solution.


    Driving that soft lead ball (just like you were slugging the barrel) down from muzzle has a good chance of working. If it is not catching the ring, you may have to upset the ball right in the throat/mouth area. That takes a stout 3/8 inch wood dowel thorugh the barrel, and a short stub of oak dowel in the closed chamber, about 1.20" long (just shorter than a case length). Drive ball most of way down barrel, then insert stub into the chamber and close action. Drive ball until it does not move and upsets against the stub rod. Then open action and drive ball out of chamber, hopefully catching "the brass ring"!


    Cerrocast has a good chance of working, if there are any rough surfaces on the ring for it to catch.


    Letting a gunsmith fish it out - has a great chance of working. They will try all the tricks - perhaps including tapping a chamber roughing reamer into the inside of that ring and using it like an easy out.


    As to those mouth dents (the same shape every time more or less) being caused by too long a case length - almost zero chance. Being caused by feeding through action, might be. Except for evidence on the the empty case you say you "loaded in the rifle by hand" - it also shows the same shape dented mouth! So, that dent was NOT caused by the 92 action working on the case.


    Good luck, GJ

  13. Track of the Wolf has .308 barrel liners for $5.89 per inch, 8 inch minimum.

    The 'smith process would to drill out the existing barrel to 1/2", install the tube (glue or silver solder), cut the chamber and the extractor groove.



    Except the existing chamber on that .45-70 barrel has a diameter of .504, leaving the liner hanging in mid air at the bolt face end of the chamber.....


    Good luck, GJ

  14. Wow, both of those cases in pic 3 show most of the problem. Appears like there could be something stuck in the chamber right at the mouth. The most common thing that might be would be a chunk of the neck of a fired case that stuck in the front end of the neck area of the chamber. Whatever mangled both of those cases in exactly the same way should EASILY be visible to the naked eye. If you are lucky, it is just a piece of the neck of a case - that could probably be removed with a .45 caliber cleaning brush pushed in from the muzzle. If that doesn't do it, casting the chamber full of Cerrosafe low-temperature-melting alloy and knocking that plug out will normally get it out. That obstruction is dangerous to shoot through and should have been quite obvious to the seller if he took a look down the bore to make sure the gun was safe to sell.


    Once the obstruction is out, you will need to do a GOOD inspection for damage to the chamber.


    I've had a feller try to sell me a ringed barrel rifle (ringed in two spots, and it was just a .22). It went back immediately to him for a full refund. He squawked a bit, but finally did the right thing.


    Good luck, GJ

  15. Well, yes, you do have a .45 Colt die that is sizing a little tight. But you have the good luck to have a Marlin rifle that has a fairly tight chamber, also. Since it produces fired brass at .473" OD. Meaning you will have to have a max finished case diameter of about .472" to chamber easily.


    And since the SDB sizer die is almost certainly a carbide die, it's not easy to ream that out slightly larger.


    (If you switched to a .45 AUTO die, you would size your brass even tighter.)


    If you back the sizer die off quite a bit and run the depriming rod down, you might be able to reduce the sizing to just the mouth area (which is where sizing is needed to help hold the slug as you seat and crimp), but (as mentioned above by OLG) you DO need to test your finished rounds in all "holes" you expect the ammo to be able to chamber in! Find which gun has the tightest chamber(s) and test against that.


    I ran a quick test on what I size my .45 Colt cases to. Standard dies for Dillon take the case down to about .467 (most of the way down to the rim). I suspected that was too much work on the case, so I bought a year ago one of the Redding two-carbide-ring sizer dies. Yep, over $70 for that one die, it's expensive. The top ring sizes the mouth down to .467" and the bottom ring sizes rest of the case to .472." I have generally seen about 50% fewer split .45 Colt cases since I did that.


    You can try not sizing at all. But most likely you will have slugs that want to drop deep into cases while seating. And unless you crimp hard, the slugs may collapse into cases in the rifle magazine - that would be real bad news.


    My guess is you will be most happy if you size only the top half of that little stubby case. In fact, that may be what I adjust my sizer die to do the next time I load C45S.


    Good luck, GJ

  16. It's such a simple job for a gunsmith to get right, and hard enough to explain (when you add in the 5 degree toe-in angle to keep the muzzle slightly down when the gun is mounted to your shoulder) that your best bet is probably to visit a smith who knows cowboy guns. Cowboy Carty sounds like he would be close to you.



    Actually, grinding the pad is the TOUGH part. The videos may make it look easy, but most folks ruin their first pad (or even two) as they sand them down.


    Now, if you want to proceed on your own, here's one of many ways that work.


    Figure out what Length of Pull you want from trigger face to recoil pad face. Most folks are faster with a shorter pull than on normal shotguns.


    To make the measuring easier, I like to fasten / clamp / tape a flat piece of plywood to the receiver extending back to the butt, and affix the butt to the board too. Take your desired finished LOP (maybe 13.5 inches) and subtract the thickness of the new pad at it's center (mounting plate to the pad surface, most pads about 1" or so), thus maybe you end up with 12.5 inches of wood to be left between trigger and the mounting plate. Mark stock at the center line between top (heel) and bottom (toe) of the stock end, measuring back from trigger. Your straight cut for the recoil pad should go through that mark. Almost all cowboy gun smiths will then build in a 5 degree slope (toe in) for that cut. Tape a straight edge (yardstick works) to the top of receiver so it matches the sight plane you sight the gun through. If you used a square to mark a 90 degree cut with the long edge of the square held on the yardstick and the line going thru the mark on the stock, you would have 0 degree toe in. Get a protractor and adust so you get a 5 degree angle from the inner corner of the square (the angle opens as you move down toward the toe of the stock. Slide the square and protractor to get to the length mark you made, and draw your cut line.


    When you cut, stay on the waste side of that line, and cut so that the cut is "square" ACROSS the thickness of the stock. This usually means you should build a jig for your tablesaw that you can affix the stock to, so the stock center line is parallel to the surface of the table saw table. You DO NOT want the stock to slide even a little in that jig - so you get a straight and square-across cut. Tape with good masking tape and use a sharp fine tooth carbide saw and feed it slow to avoid stock wood tear out.


    Then, you can fit and mount up your new pad.


    Good luck, GJ

  17. I don't like gunsmiths using the term "cleaned up" when they mean they have to remove metal. It misleads the shooting public into thinking problems with machining are always "just a cleanup". Without pictures, it's hard to say what the fix will have to be, but if you are gouging brass just chambering a round, it's going to be a gunsmith job!


    Ok, with that out of the way. If there is a gouge below the surface of where the chamber walls should be, that's really tough to remove. A new barrel, a barrel reline or a chamber reline (which isn't done often) are obvious ways to give the barrel back enough metal to cut a clean chamber.


    If there is a badly cut (partially finished) chamber, it might be possible to remove just a little with a finishing reamer. But it is SO much easier to do chamber reaming with the barrel dismounted from the receiver, I don't think any gunsmith would try to ream while barrel is mounted.


    If there is just a burr at the entry of the chamber, that can be removed with CAREFUL work with a die grinder or Dremel tool.


    All depends upon what the damage to the chamber is!



    Now, IF this is a factory new gun, you have a warranty claim. Let the factory decide how to fix it, unless you are wanting to pay someone to fix it because you don't want for Rossi to get to it. If this is one you bought used from a pard, I'd be talking with the feller about the "undisclosed damage" and how he will be helping you get it fixed. Unless he made it clear that the gun was not suitable to be fired without work on it.


    Good luck, GJ

    • Like 1
  18. Lacquer finish on a gun stock will be prone to water discoloring, solvent attack, and will be rather brittle. Great on furniture that will be indoors (except bar or table tops where exposed to alcohol) though.


    Much better to use TruOil or Linspeed when doing stocks. Just refinished a Swedish Mauser (lots of wood with that 29" barrel) - three coats in three days without ArmorAll. Just a couple drops of Japan Dryer in with the tablespoon of oil.


    Good luck, GJ

  19. Been running an RCBS vibratory bowl heavily for about 8 years now. The trick on that one (and most others) - at least each year, take the darn thing apart, clean and lube the bronze bushings with a good lube (Royal Purple gun oil is what I have used), blow out all the media dust, then reassemble all the stinking little screws and bolts.


    When it slows a little, it's time for the clean and lube. Put that off, and the bearing and then motor will burn up.


    Good luck, GJ

  20. Don't leave brass in any of the solutions mentioned above for more than the time it takes to dissolve the carbonates and sulfates that are the residue in the cases.


    The fasting acting corrosion cleaner I have found (by experiment with solutions plumbers use for cutting scale off plumbing fixtures) is:


    Quart water

    2 tablespoons vinegar

    1 tablespoon crystalline sulfamic acid (a grout cleaner from Home Depot or Lowes or tile stores)


    Warm this to as hot as you can stand to handle. Use thin latex or nitrile gloves. Place corroded brass in solution JUST long enough to stop bubbling - that is the carbonate being dissolved. This works on corroded brass, it works on brown patina (copper oxides) brass. It won't take more than a couple of minutes.


    Drain and rinse in water.


    If you have dissolved a lot of copper carbonate, or softened lots of brown patina, you will have some re-plated copper on the case surfaces that will be bright pink. I scrub that off easily with a greenie scrubbing pad. I've shot tons of pistol brass saved from a few months laying on the range - no more cracking on those cases than on non-corroded cases. BUT - If you have severe pitting on the brass surface - it's history with any treatment technique.


    You will only eat into the copper and zinc of the case walls if you leave it in acidic solutions for a long time. The trick is to drain off the acid just as soon as the residues are dissolved!


    Good luck, GJ

  21. Full wadcutter ammo is not used in CAS for a couple of reasons .


    If bullet is BELOW flush with end of case, it's illegal by rule.


    Won't feed well through lever or pump guns. Made to be shot in target revolvers.


    Good luck, GJ


    (Exact measurement correction applied)

  22. Rye Whiskey - Knob Creek Rye is not hard to choke down. :lol: Prefer Russell's Reserve 6 year old, though.


    Ditto the remarks on the CR Rye - way too mild mannered - no character.


    For Scotch - Talisker. No question.

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