Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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Posts posted by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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I've shot 200 yards with .45 Colt and a 200 grain bullet over a full load of WST. I could hold on a man silhouette over a bench rest pretty well once open iron sights were set correctly.
Make up the best 100 yard load then work it out to longer range. It will never be a 30-06 or .338 Lapua. Don't fall in the trap of putting a huge front BEAD sight on it - you will loose the target at 200 yards.
good luck, GJ
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Get a pair of those used factory springs, then grind a LITTLE metal off the outside of the coils, all along the length of the coil. Thin the coiled wire down, removing no more than 10% of original thickness. Leave the spring length alone. Then polish so no grinding marks remain as stress risers (concentration points). That should reduce the strength of the spring by 25% without causing premature failure. Seen several gunsmiths use that trick on coil springs, as well as doing it myself.
good luck, GJ
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A buffer motor, wheels and stainless-steel compatible buffing compound in several grits, down to about 1200 grit. Be aware of the extra glare/glint you get off the top of the slide and sights - might want to leave that in matte finish. Brownells carries all that and probably still provides some great instruction sheets.
A light touch is needed over any lettering and screw/pin holes to avoid washing and wallowing them out If this is your first attempt at buffing, do something real cheap as your practice piece, then you'll find if you have the steady hands and patience needed to do a nice job. Otherwise, there's several GUN finishing shops around your location that can do this for probably $200 or so. But never let a bumper re-chrome shop touch one.
good luck, GJ
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Another thing - what is the expander button diameter below where the expansion bell on the button is (before the taper out to larger diameter) ?
If you are using a lead bullet of .429" diameter, and you only open the lower part of the neck up to about 0.427 (a diameter common with some .44-40 expander buttons), then you have a lot of neck tension as you seat the bullet, and that may be squishing some of the bands on the bullet upward and out at the case mouth.
good luck, GJ
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Those pictures are very similar to when a seating die is turning the crimp into the bullet BEFORE the seater depth has been fully reached. As in, bullet continues to be shoved in the case AFTER the crimp has come down to bullet diameter. Thus, the mouth shaves lead from that point on.
First, you are belling a little too much. Because there is a gap in picture between the bullet base and, and the brass at the mouth. You could close that up a hair and eliminate your first reported problem that the case will not by hand enter the seating die fully.
Second, it seems the crimp ring in the die is turning in the mouth BEFORE your bullet has reached desired depth of seating. Can you back off the body of the die so that NO crimp is applied, seat a bullet to right spot, then back off the STEM and run the BODY of the die of the die down to make the crimp you want, then run the STEM back down to touch the nose of bullet with that cartridge in the die, so you get the seating stem real close to the proper seating depth again.
Are you SURE you don't have a bunch of dried lube stuck in the die below the original crimp ring? Cleaned the die body with solvent and a brush yet?
This is a combined seat/crimp die, right? Difficulties like this is why loading .44-40 is normally done with a seater die, then a crimp die.
good luck, GJ
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1 hour ago, Savvy Jack said:
I used the Lyman "M" die to prevent shaving and seating issues common to the 44-40.
The M die is always a great way to handle cast bullet belling problems, because it is very adjustable and it gets the main part of the neck internal diameter sized right for a cast bullet. Use one in all my 6.5mm, .30 cal, 8mm and .45 cal rifle cast bullet loading.
But I get good results with an RCBS .429" expander button in RCBS die set that I run in a turret press. No Dillon hi-speed loading with .44-40 - just NOT worth all the case damage from bulges.
good luck, GJ
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9 hours ago, Scrappy said:
..i should have mentioned i do powder coat my 9mm
Yeah, sometimes details matter a whole bunch. GJ
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Not heard of a problem with TiteGroup and powder coated bullets. Use good polymer - HyTek I understand is great.
For me, poly bullets is just a hassle I don't want to gear up for. Been shooting conventional lube for 50 years and will keep doing it for the remainder. Cheaper, faster to make, just as accurate.
good luck, GJ
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First off - pure soft lead is 5 Brinnell hardness - good for black powder loads.
Wheel weights NOW are about 9 or 10 Brinnell - almost right for low pressure loads like cowboy shooting uses. That's a "SOFT" lead alloy for pistols.
Many commercial casters use from 12 to 16 Brinnell hardness (as if everyone is going to shoot loads at magnum velocities). Good for shipping, too hard (and too much antimony - AKA cost) for good shooting with cowboy loads. THAT is what I would call "HARD" pistol bullet alloy.
COWBOY Smokeless loads work real well at 8 or 9 Brinnell hardness. Harder works, but you have to get the diameter sized right for your barrel, since harder lead won't be expanded when fired to make a loose fit into a tight fit, while softer lead (8 Brinnell) will bump up at the chamber pressures most cowboy loads make (maybe 8,000 PSI). That would be what I would call a SOFT alloy - it can be scratched with a thumbnail if you try hard.
So, I use about 2/3 WW and 1/3 soft lead and get wonderful cowboy bullets at about 8 or 9 Brinnell, and because they bump up to fill the barrel and grooves, there's no leading with even homemade lube. I even shoot 9 Brinnell bullets in my .45 auto for Wild Bunch - feed perfectly and no leading.
Many folks have had barrel leading problems when they start out shooting cowboy, and commercial casters are SO prone to sell them hard slugs rather than make sure the bullet diameter fits the groove diameter of the barrel, but those hard commercial bullets really make the leading worse. This has caused the trend of many folks now shooting polymer coated slugs - they just don't understand that a soft alloy bullet would save them money and prevent leading. But then, too, they sometimes get tired of cleaning lube out of their seating dies, and a poly coated slug eliminates most of that.
So, if you have been making good 9 MM bullets that don't lead the barrel, soften your alloy a bit to get a little softer slug, and you will do fine.
good luck, GJ
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I have only 4 stations on a Dillon 550, and I HIGHLY value a powder cop/lock out die after the bell and charge station. That leaves me only one station. So, on cast bullet .45 auto, .45 Colt and Cowboy .45 spl, I use the combined seat/crimp die. If I were making Olympic match quality ammo, I'd use separate seat and crimp dies. Only on .44-40 do I use a separate seat and crimp dies because of the tricky thin neck of a .44-40 case (so easy to bulge a neck and then have failures to chamber).
good luck, GJ
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If you have used that seater die before, and now you can't use it, something has happened to it. Rust? Hardened bullet lube in the die? Got a bore scope you could run into the die for a good visual check? Perhaps the neck of a case broke off and is stuck in the seating die, from the last time you loaded on it.
What did Dillon tell you the "proper" amount of belling of the case should be? Just enough increased diameter that the base of the bullet will enter the case when seated by hand, but won't slide freely into the case neck? Or some other sort of "nonsense"?
Did you stick a .44 spl seater die in that loader instead of a .44 WCF?
OK, here's my usual suspect - you need to get a set of Redding dies including the Redding Profile Crimp Die. That ALWAYS solves a .44-40 loading problem
good luck, GJ
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So many better (cheaper, available) alternatives.... But if you HAVE to have it (rather than just want it), make the rounds at all the on-line powder vendors once a week and then be willing to pay the hazmat duty. GJ
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Most likely the ad copy was lifted from something like an 870 clone (dual action bars and 4 mag capacity) to make the copy for this gun. Trust almost nothing in ad copy on the Guns.com web site, this says to me. They have no one checking the ad copy before it gets sent to the web site.
good luck, GJ
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Guns.com shows a gun they labeled as a 97 Hawk.
But I doubt some of the accuracy of the ad copy included on the page, saying that the magazine only holds 4 rounds!
It does indeed look like other IAC 97s as far as the low resolution photo can make it appear. It is labeled as a "new" model, but I doubt that too.
good luck, GJ
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10 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:
It looks like he initially pulled 3 as he goes back to his belt after the 3rd shot although he didn’t need another round.
He used 5 rounds on the four shotgun targets on this stage at the match. Yeah, he pulled 4 when he started with shotgun, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY (I had the pleasure to be on his posse, standing next to a family member who was shooting the video). The last 2 shots (not on video) went onto the knockdown targets, meaning he pulled one more from belt at the end.
I'd comment on the scoring discussion, but seems many of you folks would not like it.
good luck, GJ
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4.2 grains BE with 160 to 180 grain bullets is fine. I use a 175 grain TC conventional lube myself - cheap and easy to make.
I didn't like 4.0 grains TG - had to get to about 4.5 grains to suit me for consistent performance and cleaner cases.
GJ
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I'm shooting BullsEye right now, have shot WST, Clays, ClayDot, RedDot and TiteGroup. All work fine. It's just a gallery load, and not even an accuracy target load. Most anything works. GJ
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Started reloading when I was in high school. Dad brought a Lee Loader home, handed it to me with a can of powder and couple boxes of primers, and said - "Load these empty .222 Remington cases".
So, I read the flyer, literally knocked together the first 20 rounds. They all fired, and were about as accurate as factory ammo. He didn't buy another factory box for shooting varmints as long as I was still at home.
More than 20 rounds a month, though, not worth the time it takes!
good luck, GJ
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You won't get in minimum PF trouble with 180 grain slugs and Titegroup unless you are using charge weights below where you can reliably fire loads. The 60 PF limit is very low, and velocity for that 180 grain slug would have to be way down at 333 FPS - slow enough folks would laugh. It's easy to watch the slug arc to the target at those velocities.
I commonly used about 5.5 grains of TG when I used it several years ago, with a 200 grain slug, and never had problems with a squib. But there was usually a little bit of soot on the cases, especially in a revolver.
There's a difference between the main loading data tables from powder companies, and a "cowboy" collection of data. I'd trust the cowboy pamphlet to be a good guide for matches. The standard loading data is what companies expect "regular" loaders making hunting or "hold my beer" loads with - much closer to factory loading.
How low do most CAS shooters go? Most folks either start feeling the blowback of combustion gas in a rifle, or worry about sooty cases, and go up to heavy enough loads to prevent their own worries. If one of those bother you, you could certainly either anneal case mouths, or use a 2 diameter carbide sizing die (I really like the Redding dual carbide sizing die) to get the loads to fit chambers more tightly during firing.
good luck, GJ
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Yeah, and no, highly likely TiteGroup in a 17 bushing will drop a heavier weight than the highest of the range that the requester asked for. The range I quoted covered what I thought was 1 bushing (more or less) above and below what the desired weight range was.
Oh, OK, I found the web site for Shooters World and see their "test data" that shows they say a MEC #21 bushing throws 17.3 grains of Clean Shot. As explained before, that is generally not a highly accurate number, since they don't say what type of loader they used. But, let's assume it is in the ballpark.
A MEC # 21 bushing would drop WAY more weight of TiteGroup powder weight than it does CleanShot - perhaps about 20 grains. Per the latest MEC bushing chart from Hodgdon. So, not all that similar in density of the two powders. Thus any bushing should throw about 15% heavier charges of TiteGroup than it drops CleanShot. IF one wants to stick their neck out when comparing apples and oranges.
If you want to see that Hodgdon chart, look here:
https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/mec.pdf
But usually the biggest error in trying to pin down a specific bushing number I covered earlier. Drop weight for a powder from a bushing DEPENDS quite a bit on the machine, the operator's cadence, the powder lot number, and some other things. So, a scale weight is the only way to get a good load put together.
good luck, GJ
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No problem with the cut off .45 Colt cases in my C45S handloads. I trim almost all brands of .45 Colt and none have bulged the case enough when seating a 175 grain, and even a 200 grain slug to ever drag when loading into any Ruger single action I have tried. I think this may be a theoretical problem, but with the large diameter chambers that most manufacturers put into their .45 Colt pistols, this is not a practical problem. I get much better case life using my cut down assorted mfgr. cases than I do using Starline Cowboy 45 Special cases, too.
good luck, GJ
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Look up the MEC powder bushing chart
As was recommended to you, you can START with this. Google "MEC bushing chart" and you will find several. None will be precisely accurate for you. This is one of the things in reloading that you need to learn how to do, as you will probably do it often.
You did not tell us what loader you are using, which makes a big difference. Progressive loaders that run several hulls at a time on a rotating shell plate will throw lighter weights than that SAME bushing installed in a single-stage press like the MEC 600 Jr MK V, because a single-stage press makes about 5 strokes of the handle between the time you drop each powder charge, packing the granules of powder into the bushing.
I have completely sworn off telling folks (especially folks just starting to load shotshells) bushing numbers because the RIGHT number depends on way too many variables.
If you get used to throwing around bushing numbers when talking about loads, you do your own reputation and the safety of others a disservice. IMHO. From loading shotshells for 50+ years.
My serious recommendation to you is: buy bushings in the range of 12 to 17, skipping the half intervals (the As). That bunch will have the right one, most likely, and your scale will tell you which one. Your next powder weight or powder type will require a different bushing, 9 times out of 10.
good luck, GJ
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8 hours ago, Mr Malco said:
does anyone know what Mec bushing will give you 13 or 14gr of
TightgroupTiteGroupIt varies by the type of loader and your operational technique.
YOU MUST HAVE A POWDER SCALE. You CANNOT TRUST any of the powder bushing charts to match what your bushing will really throw. AND, powders vary from lot to lot - density is the common difference that you will find as you open up new bottles. So, the only way to be sure you are dropping the weights you need is to test weigh several drops DONE with the loader actually operating as you would when loading.
A good low end powder scale is the Frankford Arsenal (only about $30) and it is VERY necessary to good, safe reloading results.
good luck, GJ
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11 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:
You would think they'd have to do one or the other if it was actually an issue. Or if it was they wouldn't offer 45acp at all.
Not all pistols being made back in the 1920s and 30s were designed properly to handle common commercial ammo without suffering excessive wear,stretching and even blowing cylinders. (Like Iver Johnson, and many others.) One of the reasons a Federal Court pretty well cornered and "persuaded" the firearms industry to put together their own standards organization (what we know as SAAMI) back in 1926. It was do that, or the Court was going to request Congress to set up a Federal organization to enforce firearms and ammo standards.
good luck, GJ
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.45 Colt for long range shooting (200 yards)
in SASS Wire
Posted
All long range iron sight shooting recommendations I follow call for just enough of a front sight size (width) to let your eyes still pick it up. A large bead that you are trying to guess exactly where the rounded top ends is also going to block almost half of your view of the target. That is one reason good long range sights (like the Lyman globe front sight) have a selection of inserts that can be swapped out to match the range you are shooting, including ring sights that leave the exact center of the target visible. Next most accurate is a fairly narrow post with a sharp-edged top that lets you know exactly where the aiming point on the sight blade is. Most of my long range military rifle shooting I do is with exactly that - a target post sight, if needed, thinned down to the smallest thickness I can see well.
good luck, GJ