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Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

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Posts posted by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

  1. I used the Claybuster CB1138-12 (red, somewhat-clone of WAA12R) when I shot a lot of 12 gauge true BP loads at about 45 grains of black and 1 ounce of shot in either Remington target hulls (STS or Gun Clubs) or in Win AA HS hulls.  Gave me nice tight crimps with conventional folded petals.

     

    High pressures will not be a worry (due to BP burn characteristics yielding a slow pressure rise and self-limiting maximum pressure).  So, load so that you can crimp well.  If that means adjusting powder weight up or down a little, you can adjust. 

     

    The worst thing with a fiber OR plastic wad with BP is that TOO much powder (way over being a square load) will often open up doughnut holes in the middle of patterns.    Be sure to test your loads on some cardboard at 8 yards.  Don't be like some folks who came to a state match I hosted with BP loads they had never tested for patterns - they could not knock over targets when they aimed right at them.  Shooting 8-12" to the side, and they could.  GJ

    • Like 3
  2. On 2/16/2025 at 1:55 AM, watab kid said:

    i can't see why some of the side match 22cal events wouldn't be of interest and affordable 

     

    Well,  would that be 22 rimfire guns for spectators to buy and bring  to the side match,  guns they could not (down the road, unless youth participants) shoot in main matches?  Probably would have have to open the side match to "any 22 handgun and/or rifle."   Including scopes and red dots....

     

    Or, you would have to procure, maintain (clean) and probably provide ammo for club or member-owned guns.  And in some states, it now requires a FFL transfer or a full-time supervising FFL to be able to loan guns for use on the range.  And, then there's states with restrictions on providing guns to minors regardless of how it's done.  And possibilities that guns are hauled away covertly.

     

    Be careful what you might ask for.  Times are a lot different legally than they were in the 1960s.

     

    And then, how many members of the club want to either:

    * not shoot the main match so they can host a side match, or 

    * even harder, stay behind and run a side match after main match closes? 

     

    Of course, it's easier to do this when you are running a multi-day big match, but not easy even then.

     

    good luck, GJ

  3. Most clubs are shooting on multi-purpose ranges without much infrastructure around the range for entertainment - like a playground, kitchen,  vending of goods., sometimes not even running water.

     

    An "Annual" or State match, however, may have a large enough attendance of shooters to warrant rental of tent(s), trailers, etc.   When there is a multi-day event, vendors and paid entertainers are much more likely to turn out with their wares and talents.   Because with CAMPING on site comes the need and desire to fill the late afternoon and evening time with something to do!  

     

    All of this takes major volunteer efforts (often by non-shooting family or friends of the shooters) to make happen.  Trying to do this more than once-a-year often burns out the few non-shooting workers available in a club.

     

    More successful attempts trying to boost growth often involve:

    * introduction to SASS days, with visitor shooting and instruction by club members

    * Ladies days, with special instruction centered on their needs

    * demonstration days in conjunction with other big events held at the range

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 4
    • Thanks 1
  4. 12 minutes ago, Sheriff Dill said:

    The 6.5 creed is comparable to a 270 correct ? 

    A little less powerful, but a more compact action (308 length rather than 30-60 size).  Ammo availability is getting better, at least in big vendor sites.  Small town gunshops probably don't have a lot of stock yet.  GJ

    • Thanks 1
  5. If you are bending an extractor after a few hundred rounds fired (springing it), check that the extractor hook tip fits well into the relief cut just above the chamber in the breech face of the barrel.  Sometimes that gets filled with crud, sometimes the nose of the extractor does not fit well in the cut.   Realize that the lower bevel on the hook is designed to raise the extractor hook slightly during chambering, then allow the hook to snap down again as the bolt starts to extract the fired shell.   Watch this area very closely as you cycle dummy rounds - see that the extractor moves when it should. 

     

    You may just have fouling under the extractor body - you can spot this if the hook seems to have tension, but it won't snap down all the way down onto the rim.

    good luck, GJ

     

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  6. Tip of extractor should not have any "free play" in it at all.  It has to have a little tension as installed and no shell rim in the notch.  If the spring arm of the extractor gets ground down too thin during installation, the extractor loses tension quickly.  Same story with any vintage 73, or with any type of coil spring "modified design".

     

    How much tension is enough?   I measure it with a fishing or trigger gauge....pulling the extractor up until the hook just clears the bolt body and the gauge measures 6 pounds is plenty of tension.  I have not understood trying to go real light on 73 extractor tension.  As long as you do not notice drag on the last 1/4" or bolt travel when chambering (dummy) rounds at speed, why go lighter?  

     

    Then there's the quick measure - open action enough to get your finger onto the front of hook tip.  Pull up until tip rises above bolt body.  If your finger hurts a lot, that's enough tension.   

     

    Or the "shake the bolt" tension measurement.  With bolt out of gun, slide a good condition round under the extractor hook with other side sitting on the cartridge support tab.  If you hold rear of bolt so extractor is on top side of bolt like it runs, then flip the bolt with your wrist like tapping a drum head with a stick, and the round stays put, you have enough tension.
     

    13 hours ago, Skiddsteer1 said:

    a three point jam occurred during a match

     

    A 3-point jam would not be something I would attribute to an extractor failure.   The extractor does not control feeding in a toggle gun like it does in a Mauser rifle or a controlled-feed pistol like the 1911!  The jam you report seems to be perhaps a failure of the cartridge support tab to hold the rim properly - check carefully for tab damage.

     

    73 bolts have quite a bit of play in them, because they are "free floating" except where it connects to the firing pin extension.  The channel through the lifter narrows down as the bolt goes forward to help center the bolt with the chamber.  It NEEDS a little free play to handle variances in the "timing" between lifter and bolt.

     

    good luck, garrisonjoe

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 2
  7. With your TiteGroup powder, I'd start with the minimum load on Hodgdon's data site:   4.0 grains with your 230 grain slug.  You can work down from there if you chronograph your actual load and don't go below about 700 FPS, or a load that is too soft to be consistent and operate your 1911.   Going much below that minimum load, though, may mean you have to put in a lighter mainspring and recoil spring, since 1911s are designed to run at the 180 power factor that factory loads generate.

     

    titegroupin45autoloadrange230cast.thumb.jpg.04de7163c0dc8b8445839344a58ffba4.jpg

     

    Always good to check published, tested loading data, and know how to calculate power factor.

     

    good luck, GJ

     

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  8. Round balls for cap and ball NEED to be cast from pure lead.  Not range pickup (unless it's a .22 rimfire only range).  No tin, either, just run the pot hot (about 750-775 F on a thermometer).

     

    Range lead is great for standard cowboy bullets, though.   Add 4 ounces of tin to every 10 pounds of melted and cleaned range scrap and it will make Brinell 10 hardness slugs that shoot perfect. 

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 2
  9. 15 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

    Everything IS going to kill you -

     

    If you really believe that someone is not capable of navigating life's hazards, you need to get them into protective care!

     

    But in lead casting, trust and follow the same practices that work for experienced casters and in the lead industrial operations. 
    Yeah, at one time I was in the secondary lead recovery industry, developing new ways to recycle car batteries.  It's not for DIY operators.

     

    IMHO    GJ

    • Like 1
  10. The producer selling non-sized or non-lubed slugs is providing that service to the 20% of folks who may want a non-standard size, a non-standard lube, or any more, may want to powder coat with their own plastic compound. It's not surprising there is no discount for a plain bullet - almost all the caster's cost is in the metal, the labor to run machines, and the cost to transport finished product.  Not in a sizing or lubing step on automated equipment.

     

    good luck, GJ 

    • Like 1
  11. Quote

    They stop to fix a malfunction. Does it matter?

     

    If they handle the gun in an unsafe manner, yep.  Loaded or not, declared malfunctioning or not.  Safe gun handling is required.  

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 2
  12. As already stated, do NOT try to use car batteries for your scrap lead source!    NEVER!  It's not really the sulfuric acid in the battery, it's the calcium metal that replaces antimony in the plates and connectors! 

     

    49 minutes ago, Nickle said:

    Car Batteries are full of lead  but I would think you would have to neutralize the acid

     

    The dross from modern car batteries is a WW I gas attack waiting to happen if gets moist!   And anyway, casting a calcium contaminated batch takes another 100 deg F of pot temp to cast bullets without defects and wrinkles.

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  13. 3 hours ago, Dapper Dave said:

    92% lead, 6% antimony, 2& tin. That's the old Lyman #2.

     

    Nope, the original Lyman #2 alloy was 5% antimony, 5% tin.   That is pretty hard (Brinell 15), but also VERY expensive to make now due to the high cost of tin.

     

    The Hardball alloy is 6% antimony and 2% tin.  About as hard (16 Brinel), but had been cheaper to make - due to less tin in it.

     

    For cowboy shooting, where chamber pressures rarely exceed 15,000 PSI and velocities are around 800 FPS, a half-hardball, half pure lead bullet is plenty hard enough to prevent leading and shoot accurately, at about 12 Brinell Hardness.

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 3
  14. Cold blue is NOT a great way to blue a complete frame on a pistol.   Very hard to get a uniform deep long-lasting blue.   A gunsmith can polish and hot-salt blue that revolver frame and probably the screws to match for about $150 or so.  If you don't care for Pietta CCH, you probably would not care for a home DIY cold blue either.

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 4
    • Thanks 2
  15. Statistically much more likely for the splat to have been deflected down toward the ground with some speed, and as it traveled down, the splat turned over and struck a stand foot or upright, producing the second impact surface.

     

    Firing a pistol or rifle, one bullet splat will almost always be on the ground before you even get the hammer recocked.

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  16. I'd call Dillon and tell them about the problem.  Bet they will (FOR FREE) send at least a new bar and slider/screw assembly.  You try to lock it in place until ready to make each adjustment won't be worth it.  None of my 3 Dillon measures drift like that.

     

    A possible cause for the drift might be that the adjusting bar in the slide has started to stick out somewhere and it drags a little as the slide operates.  Seen that on other brands of measure bars where there is a mismatch between housing and the bar surfaces.....

     

    good luck, GJ 

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  17. Ummm, here's the 1911 power factor specified in the latest WB Shooter's Handbook version 17.5 (Jan 2025).......  Unless another version has come out in the last hour....

     

    from page 31:

    Quote

    Power Factor for the 1911 Pistol
    The minimum standard for center-fire smokeless ammunition used for the 1911 Pistol in all Wild Bunch Action Shooting competitions is not less than the minimum power factor of 150.

     

    And there still is a minimum PF for rifle, but it is set at the Cowboy power factor level of 60.

     

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 1
  18. That experience reinforces my experience.  I chrono my loads and I've had them chronoed at national and world matches.  4.7 grains of WST with my soft cast 200 grain TC bullets in my Colt 1911 from 1974 makes, every time, 168 PF.  Any two 1911's seem to vary a lot, up to 5 PF units for no discernible reason, with exactly the same load.    A WB shooter needs to chronograph their own .45 auto loads to be sure, or instead of trying to load to the 150 PF minimum, instead load to about 165 as a goal!

     

    Remember, I wrote:

    7 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

    (depending upon the barrel and bullet size)

      

    good luck, GJ

    • Like 3
  19. 1 hour ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

    don't know if it will make power factor for Wild Bunch but I shot 4.3gr WST behind a 200gr SWC

    That would be about a 135 PF load - great for Bullseye shooting, as you wrote.  But not enough steam for Wild Bunch.  For WB, usually (depending upon the barrel and bullet size) 4.6 grains of WST is about the lowest you want to start with.   GJ

    • Like 1
  20. IME, Guns that don't shoot the H&G #68 need to have gunsmith work on the feed ramp and and chamber entry and extractor tuning.  I find that most lead bullets have at least OCCASIONAL feed hiccups in guns that fail to feed a cast #68 SWC design properly seated.

     

    Now, is it worth having a gun that is 100% reliable with SWC?  To me, yes, since I like the ability to shoot something that is about the most accurate PAPER TARGET load available IF I ever want to. 

     

    But, I don't shoot those SWCs in big Wild Bunch matches.  I save mine for practice.  GJ

    • Like 3
  21. Clay Dot is my favorites for light .38 spl cowboy loads in cold weather or hot. Bet is would be fine in .38 Short Colt too.  GJ

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