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Creeker, SASS #43022

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Everything posted by Creeker, SASS #43022

  1. I went to the well on this one and dug out some of my old favorite sweeps and sequences. The Musketeer, Pikes Peak, Creeker, Buffalo Sam, IRS, Scorpion, Charming... And a couple of new ones; Quickly and Painted Lady. And tacked a silly name on some five shot dumps, just to justify the starting line.
  2. Attended the Nevada Rangers shoot in December here in Las Vegas. Over the course of the match - Montana Prairie Dog mentioned he was getting tired of writing stages. I piped up and mentioned that since stepping down from President and Match Director of Eldorado - that was one of the few things I missed doing. One thing lead to another. So announcing the stages for Nevada Rangers monthly match in January 2020 will be Creeker written stages. The Rangers shoot Saturday AND Sunday - six stages each day - two separate matches - shooters are welcome to shoot either or both. Saturday Jan 11 and Sunday Jan 12. Sign ups at 8am - Shooting begins at 9am. I will attach the stages for your purview and amusement. If you are going to be in Las Vegas or interested in making the drive - the Nevada Rangers shoot at the Clark County Shooting park north of Las Vegas. https://www.nevadarangers.com/ http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/parks/Pages/clark-county-shooting-park.aspx 2020 January Nevada Rangers.pdf
  3. Not an argument in any manner. Just a discussion with differing positions. Meant nothing adversarial. And when I say Ill always take Docs position; it just means that I know his dedication to honestly questioning any held opinion. Even his own. Doc will take on a topic and analyze it. And after he does; you can be assured that the result is accurate and unbiased. Now Smokestack is completely correct about his skills slip hammering; and there are, of course, ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. But if a shooter asks - is (sliphammering), (97 vs SxS), (crossdraw vs straighthang holsters), (etc, etc and so on) faster/ more accurate/ more successful... Doc will be able to tell you; based on his tests and methodology, that in most cases X is superior to Y. He will also be able to tell you under what conditions Y was better than X. I have only had the opportunity to speak directly with Doc on one occasion; but I have read his book and when he has shared his methods for testing any given hypothesis - I have always been amazed at the thoroughness and effort. We all have our opinions and insight on any given topic. Our personal experiences and observations. And if you're anything like me; you share them freely (right or wrong). Doc takes his efforts to the next level to figure out if those personal opinions and observations are across the board accurate or anomalies. That's the reason I said; when someone says, "in my experience" and Doc says something contrary - I usually have to pretty much go with Doc. Doesn't mean he is infallible or that there are not instances where someone, something is going to have results differing from the norm; but Doc generally gives a pretty good framework to work from.
  4. When the argument begins with that caveat... I will take Doc Shapiro everytime. Doc takes every point of debate and uses scientific method to determine if X or Y is actually faster, more efficient or effective. He doesn't base it on opinion, experience or feelings. But real world testing with multiple world class shooters. Doing something one way or the other "may" be faster for you or me. But if Doc says, with all factors being equal, method X is faster than Y - I assure you it is.
  5. I'm always amazed at cowboy shooters... "Why don't companies make their guns exactly the way I want?" Not, "That's different. But if it makes someone think positive thoughts about a lever action rifle or single action revolver - it's a good thing." Or, "Well, if they sell a few of those; maybe they will keep making..." Contrary to what we seem to think; cowboy action is a tiny, tiny market. Uberti does not care if you protest their new firing pin - they didn't make it for you. Mossberg thought a tactical lever was a thing - I doubt they had funny dressed cowboy shooters in mind. Remington does not give a rip about your opinion of the fit and finish on a Marlin rifle - they make more in a week than cowboy shooters will buy in a year. Stop being so petty about products and companies because they dare to do something different than John Wayne would have carried or Sam Colt would have expected. Be happy that Ruger makes special editions to support the market and keep their production going. Be happy that someone is still making Marlin rifles and folks are still purchasing them. Be thrilled that Mossberg has entered the lever action market - maybe that means another option someday. Be happy that Uberti can continue to import their revolvers and is trying to avoid being litigated about of business.
  6. To Shooting Bulls credit; he ain't near as far off as he makes it seem. But, I do agree with his above paragraph. Bulls background in weight training mean his focus and discipline is never an issue. So he would gravitate strongly to a positive mantra that discipline and focus will reach your goals. But because of that same focus and aversion to failure; Bull has become unwilling to trainwreck. When you watch Bull shoot; you can see him analyzing every step of the way. Every transition, transfer and step is being processed and he can be a clinic for exactly what you are supposed to do. You can have a fantastic dance instructor; one that can tell you exactly where and how to place your feet, your hands - eventually you have to do it without their voice in your head and without counting, 1,2,3 1,2,3. And eventually to be great; you have to go beyond the instruction and "feel" it. You have to let go and risk stepping on some toes. Trust yourself Bull. You're very good.
  7. True words by Widder. Accuracy is a skill. Do everything correctly and your bullet will strike the target. Speed is a mindset. You have to force speed with every shot, movement, transition and thought.
  8. My grandparents spent their winters in Ocala and I spent many a day in Six-Gun Territory. Loved that place. For those who did not get to go - The front of Six Gun Territory was a train station. The inside of the station was adorned with 50's and 60's movie and TV cowboy memorabilia My mom and dad would purchase my admission ticket - and then go abut their day. And with that ticket purchase; an unsupervised little fat kid, equipped with cheap cowboy hat, plastic holsters and chrome plated Hubley cap guns, would be taken on a short train ride to the old west town. A town replete with saloons, gunfights, jail breaks and bank robberies. Can-Can girls and all varieties of lawmen and outlaws to walk around with and speak too. 4 or 5 different gunfight events during the day and that fat little kid was in heaven. Additionally the park housed an assortment of carnival rides, (an assortment that would pale compared to a good grocery store parking lot fair), but rides none the less. A few dollars in my pockets fed me and ensured I was going home with an assortment of tacky souvenirs that I valued more than gold. A "Wanted" poster with an excessive bounty, printed with my name and a line drawing of the bad hombre I imagined myself to be. The actors never failed to give me a "Howdy" or even invite the kid with the guns to play along running down the bad guys. I would stay until the very last train of the day. Sunburned, windblown and dirty. My treasures in bags or folded up in my pockets. Tummy questionable from too much sugar and too many rides. I spent a fair amount of time in Southern Florida. Went to Key West, Disney World and Cape Canaveral. Walked along the beach in Daytona and sat in the grandstands at Daytona. I saw panther farms, alligators wrestled and floated in glass bottom boats. Even went to the Webster flea market a few times. But nothing ever hit me and stayed with me like Six Gun Territory. Back when the world made sense - right and wrong were as obvious as the color of your hat and after the shots rang out - everyone involved got up, took a bow and did it all over again in an hour. What I would give to be that kid again - if just for a day. https://www.bing.com/search?q=six+gun+territory+florida&form=EDGTCT&qs=SC&cvid=537d45ed51a84ee5a785400334b72659&refig=bd254e0ee75a40b9a78296c2d27075d1&cc=US&setlang=en-US&plvar=0&PC=LCTS
  9. I'm not sure... I'm thinking we are both too bulky to be Abbott and too tall to be Costello. Martin and Lewis maybe? Nah. Martin was too debonair for either of us. Sigfried and Roy? Googling their personal relationship... Uhm, perhaps not. Wayne Flowers and Madam? No. That doesn't work at all. I never wear a boa. Shields and Yarnell? Yeah, right. Like either one of us could be quiet. I'll study on it...
  10. Ummmm. I believe they were referring to using the front site. I shoot with you enough to know that neither of us do that.
  11. I bet they will. The people who bad mouth Hi-Point for their guns and quality have rarely shot them or dealt with the factory. As some of you know; I own a gun shop in Pahrump NV, our next door neighbor, until he passed, was the brother of Hi- Points owner and a pretty consistent visitor to our shop. He was in the shop one day when a customer came in with a box full of broken Hi-Point pistol. Seems after shooting at the range - he had placed the gun on the hood of his pickup truck. Left the range and the obvious happened - gun flew off - struck the highway at about 45mph. Bounced under the truck and was struck by the truck. While the driver was turning around to retrieve the gun; he got to watch as it was again run over by a number of semi trucks. After traffic cleared; he boxed up the pieces. Cast slide cracked and twisted. Polymer frame shattered. An ugly combination of broken bits and road debris. He walked into the shop; placed the gun on the counter and jokingly asked about trade in value. After a few laughs and pointing out a new Hi-Point we happened to have in the case to purchase; our neighbor who was standing there listening said, "Send it back to Hi-Point; lifetime warranty" We, of course, chuckled at the thought. He looked at us, dead serious, "Do it". We said, "Why not? It's good for a lark." One week later, we had a package from Hi-Point. One NEW Hi-Point pistol, with the same serial number, two new magazines and a note apologizing for our inconvenience. This is not my sole take of their service; just the most interesting one. Their customer service is equal to or far superior to some "quality" firearms manufacturers that I have had the pleasure of interacting with. (and as a gun shop owner; I have dealt with a few) I spoke with the owner at the SHOT show one year; introduced myself and told him the story. I bluntly asked him if our proximity to his brother had any bearing on the service. He adamantly stated, "No, the Hi-Point warranty is for the life of the gun." His words, "I don't care if you find one in your garage, the woods or a fire; melted or rusted solid. We will repair or replace it." Yes, they are ugly. And clunky and heavy. They are not a Perazzi shotgun or Ed Brown 1911; they were never intended to be. But they are infinitely more reliable than gun snobs will ever admit. And at their price point; they open the door to ownership and self defense for the casual or low income gun owner. I bet they do right by you.
  12. Don't we already compete against these shooters? Let's face it - there ain't many, if any, that are coming in to the cowboy game and dethroning shooters like Matt Black. All a PRO category does is allow us to reward and retain these top shooters in cowboy. Garner some national attention to our sport by Team Pietta vs Team Uberti vs Team Ruger rivalry. Allows more shooters opportunities to place at least one spot higher at World's or Nationals. Maybe a blip in gun rag coverage. A mention or two on Shooting USA that doesn't focus entirely on costuming. Take that media coverage - couple that with the grass roots gun shows and flyers - maybe we have a chance to gather that next generation of shooters. Maybe the investment in guns, leather, attire isn't so daunting if someday the shooter might be able to profit from it. And maybe we simply get to expose the game to folks that missed it the first time around. Also nothing says we can't change the game to reflect the PRO influence. Maybe a PRO target distance vs amateur. Same arrays - just differing distances? And if we have to set two arrays of steel... Maybe allow the Amateur shooter the choice of which target array to use with a time multiplier? I.e. Shoot the amateur array; your time multiplier is 100%. Shoot the PRO array and your time multiplier is 80%. Example - the amateur array is: Pistols @5 yards, shotgun @ 7 yards, rifle @10 yards. PRO array is: Pistols @8 yards, shotgun @10 yards, rifle @20 yards. The amateur shooter could engage either array and take the multiplier against their raw time. Penalties remain consistent. So a 20 flat shooter on the Amateur array has a 20 second time. (20 seconds x 100%) A 25 flat shooter on the PRO array has a 20 second time. (25 seconds x 80%) Match Directors could vary the multiplier on every stage depending on target arrays and distances. Shooters could decide which array to engage in every stage. Add an element of strategy to the game as well. This opens the game back up to the "slower, but more accurate" group and gives more options to the shooter. And may make the game more interesting to spectators.
  13. I'm truly not adverse to a PRO category. Separate and standalone. Any SASS legal equipment. AnySASS legal shooting style. Four awards: SASS smokeless PRO - Male & Female SASS blackpowder PRO - Male & Female Only those entering the PRO category could be sponsored or eligible for event cash prizes. The PRO category shooter would not be eligible/ nor counted toward any prize/ awarding other than those in the PRO matrix. Entry into PRO category would be entirely voluntarily - no one would be forced to the category. Shooters may shoot Pro or not on an individual match basis. Targets are repainted between shooters to facilitate scoring. PRO shooters are posse'd together. With volunteer/ or paid from sponsorships fees timer operators and range officers. PRO is an offered match category (all levels) - matches are not required to provide cash prizes. A PRO shooter sponsorship advertising will be limited to a "Western style vest" - all advertising will be embroidered or sewn on patches. Sizes/ placements of individual advertising will be examined/ approved by SASS. Advertising content will be examined for sport and family suitability before approval. Any PRO shooter entering into sponsorship agreement will forward to SASS the signed contract detailing the agreed upon value of said sponsorship. The shooter or sponsor will remit 10% of this value to SASS to administer and add the PRO category. In much the same way that seeing NASCAR on TV encourages folks to visit their local short track or build themselves a race car. Having an amazing PRO division might just be that spark that brings national notice and the very best to our sport. Just think about bringing Jasmine Jessie and Holy Terror back home to cowboy where they belong. This brings money into SASS. Brings more talent into SASS. Reinvigorates our current ranking with firearms manufacturers. Revitalizes the gunsmith wizards building our toys. Takes the top level shooter (that chooses to move up) out of the rankings - which opens the door for many others to buckle and brag. Perhaps increases shooter/ spectator attendence at our majors. The rest of us are not affected in any manner. We continue to shoot our categories under our current rules. Hmmm?
  14. Target sizes, distances, movement, etc. are items that affect CURRENT shooters. They are NOT attracting or dissuading new shooters from playing. Also we need to stop worrying about attracting shooters from other shooting sports - these shooters ALREADY have their thing and while some might cross over occasionally - it is not long term viable. We have MANY times had modern three gunners come play with us - they laugh and have a great time... And at the end of the match - they return to their chosen game. Not better not worse; but the one they already have the equipment and experience in. For our game to grow; we have to entice non shooters, current shooters without a sport and new shooters to attempt our game. Our game is plenty attractive as it is - IF we can get people to see it. Surely, someone has some ideas beyond move Winter Range, outlaw short strokes and get rid of big targets.
  15. I fully agree. I started this thread to solicit ideas. Some I knew would be ones that we have already done and hopefully some that we had yet to try. But the biggest obstacle isn't necessarily refusing to do anything - it is not knowing what/ how to do something. This is why some clubs would benefit from SASS assistance from professionally prepared video and marketing materials. Having a consistent message. Having marketing tools. Having ideas to use the above.
  16. Virtual reality game. A VR game that is not a quest/ journey multi universe game. Simply a shooting game at steel targets that immerses the shooter via VR headset. Useful for demonstrating the game to potential shooters not at the range, (gunshow, fair, etc.) Be able to setup (by operator) to shoot different distances, arrays, sizes, sweeps, and record your times. Or multiplayer mode where you can shoot "heads up shooting style" against your buddy online. Would be a great tool to show others our game and maybe a great practice tool between matches for current shooters.
  17. Fantastic ideas. Brings me to another point. There needs to be a SASS video / professionally filmed and edited that delivers a consistent message for clubs to use at these shows. Instead of every singular club reinventing the wheel. Also if we have this footage; we could approach every TV channel with a local events program (Good Morning city name type shows) and ask to come on (in costume) and discuss SASS using the script guidelines from SASS and informing them we have professional footage for their broadcast use.
  18. I see the top shooter video comment all the time and im not really debating the possible intimidation factor. But if we are trying to bring in new blood and excite them - does reinforcing the stereotype of SASS shooters all being old, fat, gray and slow benefit our cause? Or in other words - marketing to a demographic that will be gone in 10 years instead of one that will be around for 30 seems counterproductive.
  19. A specific shooter said a specific action, "movement", would increase SASS growth and participation. I asked HIM to define what he meant by movement. And hoped to follow that up with "Why?" did he believe that would increase participation. Because one word answers rarely convey all the information needing to be shared. Was he desiring shooting on the move? For all firearms? Greater distances between shooting positions? Perhaps his local club serves a steady diet of stand and deliver? But I certainly appreciate your especially clever pedantic posting of the links. I just discovered this thing called a dictionary that defines singular words as well.
  20. Exposure: I mentioned You tube videos. But what about live streaming? A permanent range (Founders ranch comes to mind) could set up three cameras on each bay to both record and live stream events. Imagine jumping on YouTube and being able to watch your buddies shooting EOT live. Obviously this would lead to other events doing the same and perhaps even a cottage industry of someone traveling around to various annual matches and setting up temporary systems for that event. An additional benefit would be the potential for broadcast of a stage behind the safety area for greater onsite spectator viewing.
  21. I like the idea of a 22 category for adults. Two Ruger Wranglers, Henry lever and various shotgun. This removes a huge price objection from start up cost. Full array of guns under $1000.00 Along with clubs purchasing a set of 22 caliber pistols/ rifle for "rent" or borrow for interested shooters. I, like many others, wouldn't want to borrow guns from another shooter at start up or to try it out... But a club set of loaners? I might. I bet SASS could get a price break on these guns from Ruger and Henry as well. Perhaps some ammo sponsorships for club use 22 and featherlight sg ammo.
  22. Define movement. You mean firing while moving? Because depending on the venue; events have plenty of movement. And keep in mind; this thread is about GROWING our game. That means bringing in shooters from other games or current non shooters. Talking about moving shoots to cater to the other side of the country is simply trading one cowboy shooter for another. Net increase of zero. Changing an internal rule that is not drawing shooters or dissuading shooters may make the game "better" for someone... But those someones are already playing. Net increase of zero. I don't disagree that there are myriads of rules and conventions that should be tweaked; but those changes are simply for those already playing. They won't entice someone who has never played to get off the couch and come out. We need a goal; say 10k NEW shooters in 2020. That's an increase of $650,000.00 If 40% of that would be eaten in added admin and overhead. And we want 20% to go to bottom line revenue for future growth or campaigns. That allows us to budget $260,000 for this proposed growth. Quarter million dollars. Nice number. What do you do with it?
  23. Another point to consider... We have been in continual war/ conflict since September 11. There is a huge pool of current and retiring military members to be tapped. Many veterans are aficionados of history; some may crave firearms competition but may not want to do so with the arms of their service. Or may be physically limited as such that a less intense shooting sport is desired. Outreach and invitation to local veterans groups would be a good idea.
  24. What are they doing that impresses you? Are they selling product or image? And is there a difference between marketing a commodity (coffee) and an activity (SASS) Can we/ SASS replicate, duplicate or emulate it? Something they are doing has struck a chord with you - let us know what that is and how it could apply to our growth.
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